were using it based on that.
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rare, AFAIK.
Is there any other way to do it? I am not aware of any other way. If
that is the only way then it must be in use by everyone who needs it.
Maybe I am missing a better alternative?
update-rc.d service disable
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remove the wontfix tag even after I've changed my mind. :/
Closed is another matter entirely -- that means I'm pretty sure the bug
report should just go away.
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recall there being a specific good reason at the time.
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until 2020 and
there still wouldn't be any consensus. And that has its own risk.
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taking people's
arguments at face value and extending the assumption of good will that
people proposing technical solutions are doing so because they thought
about the problem and thought the solution was superior, not because of a
marketing campaign.
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Patrick Ouellette poue...@debian.org writes:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:04:00AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
In a sense, of course, this is true. However, what I'm trying to point
out is that we have a fundamental governance question facing us here.
What are we, as a project, going to do when
the discussion that the GR is having,
or that most of the systemd arguments are focused on.
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piece
of inaccurate FUD that's been going around. At least on debian-user, this
information is being spread intentionally by trolls who know that it's a
lie, just to make people angry unnecessarily.
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. It's definitely not
happening on mine. Could you provide more information, such as an example
that's not in /var/log/syslog where you expect it but ended up in the
journal, and what program is involved?
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)
Ow. No, that's definitely a bug. I'd love to understand what happened
there, as that sounds like a pretty serious one. That is not expected
behavior.
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Patrick Ouellette poue...@debian.org writes:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 06:19:32PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
Ow. No, that's definitely a bug. I'd love to understand what happened
there, as that sounds like a pretty serious one. That is not expected
behavior.
OK, so the system has syslog-ng
implies
binary logging are getting bitten by the same bug that you're getting
bitten by and just didn't realize it wasn't intentional.
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or a legislature with a hostile and adversarial process.
Stripping away that sort of system at least gets rid of that problem, but
it's still not going to somehow magically resolve an actual fundamental
conflict over principles.
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the use of pristine-tar. The format is fragile and can
suffer from bit rot.
I strongly disagree with this advice. pristine-tar is hugely helpful, and
is something we should continue to support, advocate, maintain, and use.
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the warm community feel back where we do not need some
special technical process to reach some consensus but a nice talks
between friends because we are afterall friends here. A family. So,
please, lets care for each other and do a handshaking and hugging as a
consensus for everything.
+1
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Michael Gilbert mgilb...@debian.org writes:
On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
And yet, I don't see how it could have been said better. Thank you so
much for putting this into words.
How can you possibly think no more need said? You are one of four
complicit in the act
Michael Gilbert mgilb...@debian.org writes:
On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
I don't want this to be taken as asking for criticism to be shut down,
so I'm not asking this of anyone who wants to agree with Michael. If
you want to do that in public or private, please go
,
and in a lot of ways that's the simplest fix, but if we could eventually
eliminate this distinction, it would remove a bunch of Lintian checking
and package machinery and moving stuff about that's of rather questionable
usefulness and mostly just wastes maintainer time.
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gain totally isn't
worth the effort in maintaining the package.
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Rene Engelhard r...@debian.org writes:
On Sun, Nov 02, 2014 at 01:09:02PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
files there. No one is ever going to bother to move the files in, say,
q LibreOffice into /usr/share, since the theoretical gain totally isn't
worth the effort in maintaining the package
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
I think it's worth considering whether we should just dump the Lintian
checks for arch-independent files in /usr/lib, and make a corresponding
change to Policy that says that packages are free to put
arch-independent files
Nick Phillips nick.phill...@otago.ac.nz writes:
On Wed, 2014-10-29 at 21:58 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Point. We should have documentation for what the minimum signing
frequency we guarantee is, particularly for the security archive.
Then, people who are willing to suffer from mirror issues
Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk writes:
Quoting Russ Allbery (2014-10-28 17:20:02) at debian-vote@l.d.o
For the compiler, all of Debian is built with GCC, but some teams do
test builds with Clang and report bugs, which most maintainers merge
and some don't.
Speaking of which: Is it Policy
of a downgrade attack
for your systems, setting the validity period on your systems is exactly
the tool that you need. There's no need for anything to change on the
server side for you to get that protection.
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Point. We should have documentation for what the minimum signing
frequency we guarantee is, particularly for the security archive. Then,
people who are willing to suffer from mirror issues if they're slow can
just use that.
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really wonder how you can do that with the above means.
I read the mailing list. In practice, it works fine.
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enough
that I'm just not particularly worried about it. Yes, it's possible, but
it's a lot less likely than other attacks that we aren't doing anything
about currently.
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Changed-By: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Description:
puppet-module-puppetlabs-apt - Puppet module for apt
Changes:
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.
* Team upload.
* Include the lib directory in the package. apt_key
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
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on software included in the archive while
still acknowledging that there are multiple possible tradeoffs and some
people may prefer different ones and may want to work on making it
possible to choose them.
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more restrictive approach to licenses than
what Debian actually does. It's usually more immediately useful to just
upload the package with an explanation of the issues in debian/copyright
and see what the ftp-master team says.
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this.
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to do a more
coordinated transition.
bcron-run should, of course, continue to provide cron-daemon as well.
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and configuration defaults are as secure as possible.
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Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net writes:
On Wed, 2014-10-15 at 12:55 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
For another example, upstream for both Heimdal and MIT Kerberos know
very well what the situation is with the RC4 use in the Kerberos
protocol and are making well-informed decisions
for accomplishing
anything, which is why I (and several other people here) are trying to
nudge you in the direction of something more productive and more likely to
succeed.
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are different than the typical attacks against setuid binaries.
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dash (although that
particular benchmark is a little artificial).
It looks like moving to dash sped Debian up a little.
That was supported by boot timings, which are a pretty good simulation of
real-world load.
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it's there for.
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detected: Sanesecurity.Junk.3451.UNOFFICIAL: message rejected
I suspect some text pattern in a systemd data dump is hitting a false
positive in that virus pattern.
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the same thing in my earlier
reply, pointing to gbp import-orig --upstream-vcs-tag, which creates
exactly that structure.
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with is that upstreams are not going to
follow this principle. I know I'm not alone in putting my foot down on
this point.
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inherently dynamic and doesn't support static linking.
Perhaps glibc upstream would be willing to restore them?
It would be nice, but I doubt you'll make much progress. Lots of people
have complained about this over the years.
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:
* ‘test’, if implemented as a shell built-in, must support ‘-a’ and ‘-o’
as binary logical operators.
Yeah, that's been there for a while. They were too widely used, so
although they're really confusing, we decided not to pick that fight.
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of the new tarball to the
upstream branch as a merge commit, with parents being the upstream tag and
the previous state of the upstream branch. This gives you a branch you
can merge into the Debian packaging branch and get all of the behavior
that you want.
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Russell Stuart russell-deb...@stuart.id.au writes:
On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:43 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
A lot of people miss this about Policy 10.4. People seem to think that
Policy 10.4 is about requirements for shell scripts. But it's just as
much a standard for /bin/sh.
You wrote
. The exploited functionality simply doesn't exist in dash.
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shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com writes:
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com writes:
I hate the idea of dash. It's not more secure (see vmware cve for an
example) and I think it was more of an accident than anything else
as
described, which we make /bin/sh by default.
Being pedantic is not the only, or even the main, goal of our /bin/sh.
Performance, for example, is also quite important.
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as /bin/sh. We don't have a particularly
great story around integration testing right now, but even with what we've
got it might still be interesting. Of course, that relies on maintainers
caring, which is often the hard part.
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Russell Stuart russell-deb...@stuart.id.au writes:
On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 18:05 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Up until dash changes, and then you have absolutely no idea what to do
with that sort of policy. There's a reason why no standards document
I've ever seen says something like
in favor of that going all the way
back to the days of active checkbashisms development and various Lintian
tests.
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are way too conservative about not just
using the next version number. Integers are cheap, and you won't ever run
out. :) It's akin to the problem of endless releases of software widely
used all over the world that still has a 0.x version number. Just call it
1.0 already.
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the last few days that we pushed forward with switching /bin/sh to dash,
even though some folks thought this was a bad idea. Having the shell used
by system() and popen() be as simple as possible turns out to be rather
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commands that set various
interesting environment variables. :)
sudo should stop you from doing things like this unless you've explicitly
told sudo to allow the client to set any environment variable.
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and process it;
there's no obvious reason to believe that should be unsafe. I think
assuming the mere contents of an environment variable restricted to a
namespace like HTTP_* and kept well away from, say, LD_* would not be
interpreted as executable code is pretty reasonable.
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shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com writes:
On Sep 25, 2014 9:36 PM, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
That may be overkill, but I will say that I'm feeling *extremely*
grateful the last few days that we pushed forward with switching
/bin/sh to dash, even though some folks thought
Brian May br...@microcomaustralia.com.au writes:
On 26 September 2014 12:08, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
I think you have that backwards, don't you? Shouldn't that be:
echo='() { /bin/echo bar; }' sudo bash
I think sudo treats both as the same/similar thing.
That would
: sorry, you are not allowed to set the following environment
variables: echo
Ah! You're right. I totally missed that capability of sudo.
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if sponsors really want to do it that way, nothing will stop them), but
the individual who declared that package ready.
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(but definitely Debian) could use help.
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/dict/words, which is widely used in a
variety of strange places you wouldn't expect, like random test suites.
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Scott Kitterman deb...@kitterman.com writes:
Personally, I use telnet pretty routinely. Generally when I'm acting as
a human pretending to be an MTA for troubleshooting purposes. I would
find it pretty surprising to find it absent.
Try nc. It works pretty well. :)
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a sysvinit system should mark anything
that isn't mounted at the time of the upgrade nofail.
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doesn't
that I don't think we should just plow ahead without being clear about
what's going on.
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The original plan was to have the question owned by some package that
could then switch the init symlink from one implementation to another.
That way, no abort is required. I'm not sure if that survived contact
with reality, though, in the sense that I'm not sure how implementable it
is.
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Ansgar Burchardt ans...@debian.org writes:
On 09/09/2014 17:01, Russ Allbery wrote:
The original plan was to have the question owned by some package that
could then switch the init symlink from one implementation to another.
That way, no abort is required. I'm not sure if that survived
gain over just installing mysql-server.
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Sven Joachim svenj...@gmx.de writes:
On 2014-09-05 23:50 +0200, Russ Allbery wrote:
That seems much higher than I believe is the case. Wasn't there a
detailed analysis of this posted a while back? My vague recollection
was a number more on the order of a quarter of that, and with most
there a
detailed analysis of this posted a while back? My vague recollection was
a number more on the order of a quarter of that, and with most of those
being quite small (such as libsystemd-daemon0, which counts as a package
but which has an installed size of 72KB).
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Gerrit Pape p...@dbnbgs.smarden.org writes:
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 09:30:17AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Also, I'll reiterate what I said on debian-policy on this topic: the
current Policy discussion of priorities is deceptive, since it implies
I don't think the discussion on the issue I
as the total
installed size of each of those sets. I think that would be more
effective and more directly on point than mucking about with trying to
monitor priority changes.
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with:
openssl s_client -CApath /etc/ssl/certs -connect www.paypal.com:443
I suspect a transient bug with PayPal's web site, possibly only affecting
some regions.
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and privacy leak points in
the process.
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maintainers. Policy discussion of
priorities really needs some substantial revision to account for that, for
the fact that conflict-free optional has not realistically been a project
goal for some years, and to be clearer about just what we want to use
priorities for.
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about.
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rules files (conffiles)
on everyones system, if only a small percentage of users actually
install logcheck.
Lots of other packages already do, and the logcheck maintainers had been
pushing that as best practices. The files aren't particularly large.
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include rules that match lines like:
Aug 28 07:30:01 lothlorien systemd[1]: Starting Run anacron jobs...
Aug 28 07:30:01 lothlorien systemd[1]: Started Run anacron jobs.
or should those be in the anacron package / rule set? I could see an
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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 11:32:14 -0700
Source: gnubg
Binary: gnubg gnubg-data
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 1.03.001-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Changed-By: Russ Allbery r
Brian May br...@microcomaustralia.com.au writes:
On 24 August 2014 04:24, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Right, exactly. That's super-annoying to do if you were keeping
everything mixed together in the master branch, much easier if you were
keeping separate branches for each fix
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 00:39:40 -0700
Source: lbcd
Binary: lbcd
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.5.1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Changed-By: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Maintainers
pkg-puppet-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Description:
puppet-module-puppetlabs-firewall - Puppet module for Firewall management
Closes: 748425
Changes:
puppet-module-puppetlabs-firewall (1.1.3-1) unstable; urgency=medium
.
* New upstream release
Matthias Urlichs matth...@urlichs.de writes:
Russ Allbery:
It's somewhat harder to maintain, but it's vastly better for
communicating to upstream or to other distributions.
Mmh. Whenever Upstream uses git, my favorite method of sending a patch
is to put the fix in a separate branch
getty and so forth and instead using a simpler root
password verification mechanism. Linux traditionally brings up more
services in single user than, say, Solaris (such as networking), but I
think even Solaris didn't keep the root partition read-only when booting
single-user.
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distributions.
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Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org writes:
On 08/18/2014 01:49 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
Joey took various approaches to work around this, including shipping
some of the older versions of the compressors in the package. However,
the issue also applies to tar, and so far has been addressed
Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org writes:
On 08/18/2014 01:36 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
The upstream source *can* be changed and improved for everyone.
Truth, but not always practical. If I was going to fix all the defects
of software I package, I don't think I'd have enough time to sleep even
that people can use whatever convention they wish and our
tools can still interoperate.
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branch.
You realize that pristine-tar only stores references and a small delta,
and does not store copies of the tarball, right?
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with a compatibility patch in tar.)
If you are absolutely relying on pristine-tar as the only source for a
file, you may be more concerned about the possible incompatibilities with
future tool revisions.
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to override
for local needs). So while more work that option makes the software
better for everyone in the long run.
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this
for packages for which I'm upstream.
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clearly a need for software of this type in Debian,
and at the same time it's clearly a ton of work. The teams involved have
indicated that they're willing (if not necessarily happy) to deal with one
version of the source base, but not two.
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Cyril Brulebois k...@debian.org writes:
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org (2014-08-16):
None of this is why libav and FFmpeg can't both be in the archive.
They can't both be in the archive because both the release team and
the security team have said that they're not interested in trying
for some period of time.
Note that all of the above statements also apply to libav. As near as I
can tell, this is not a distinguishing characteristic between the two
projects.
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m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes:
And anyway I'd say that downloading the original archive is simpler than
having to deal with pristine-tar...
I'm mystified. What is there to deal with? I literally never touch it.
It just works, completely transparently and silently.
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wm4 nfx...@googlemail.com writes:
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Note that all of the above statements also apply to libav. As near as I
can tell, this is not a distinguishing characteristic between the two
projects.
And that's an argument against switching to FFmpeg exactly how
) is very
interesting. I've personally learned quite a bit from it, have now
introduced reallocarray in my own code, and am planning on introducing
strtonum.
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want to be able to check out a git repository and do packaging work and
an upload, without having to pull any external artifacts from somewhere
else.
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