Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-13 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Gunnar Wolf wrote: Of course, many upstreams will not accept this, as it breaks their workflow and might just feel outside influence from people they don't care too much about (and I'm not meaning the Linux desktops, as they obviously care about Linux distributions, but mainly OS-agnostic

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-07 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Cyril Brulebois wrote: Raphael Geissert geiss...@debian.org (05/08/2009): Like some people said during Debconf: freezing in December doesn't necessarily mean freezing the first day or even the first week of December; the 31 is still December, which means there are 30 days to decide many

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Julien BLACHE wrote: [Cc:ed as I don't know whether you're subscribed to -project] I am subscribed, yes, but thanks for the cc. From the very start of the Debian Project, Debian has been different from everything else: different package management tools, different philosophy, different

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Julien BLACHE wrote: Debian stands out in many respects, yes. But being different for the sake of it isn't a laudable goal: if there's a good idea, it deserves to be considered, even if others are already considering it. Being different and independent actually enables us to be better

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Hi Marc Marc Haber wrote: this is kind of a personal reply; I am therefore writing this to you directly and only Cc'ing debian-project, and I do not know whether you read that mailing list. On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 10:21:38AM +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: I've stayed quiet

Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Werner Baumann wrote: The two models as I can see them from the discussion so far: Model 1: Debian freezes in December Debian developers concentrate on fixing RC bugs Ubuntu developers concentrate on including newer versions of major software packages When the number of RC bugs in Debian

Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Pierre Habouzit wrote: On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 10:29:11AM +0100, Steve Langasek wrote: I'm sorry that you have a negative impression of Ubuntu's relationship with Debian, but there's plenty of data available that contradicts your conclusion (including BTS reports that have been posted to

Re: On syncing freeze dates with other distributions

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Bernd Zeimetz wrote: Manoj Srivastava wrote: I also think that we should be looking at when we freeze not merely at when a derived distro freezes, but when major system components release, and when top level sister distributions freeze (we'll get far more benefit for Debian

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Hi Marga Margarita Manterola wrote: If Debian commits to a December freeze, would that mean that Ubuntu commits to releasing 10.04 with KDE 4.3 (already released) and GNOME 2.28 (to be released in a few months), instead of KDE 4.4 (to be released in January) and GNOME 2.30 (to be released in

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Julien BLACHE wrote: You are on a fight against proprietary software (you made that clear through your wording in your first mail). One of the issues with proprietary platforms is that everyone running a given platform runs the same security holes. Now, that obviously applies equally if

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Marc Haber wrote: Hi, On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 09:32:36PM +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote: In other words: freeze on december the first doesn't mean that if, say, Gnome will publish it's new shiny 1.2 version by december the 15, the last beta should have to be included, but that the

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Marc Haber wrote: On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 08:44:29PM +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: My expectation is that Debian will want to have more flexibility in how long the release is baked than Ubuntu would normally give itself. My hope is that we can agree on a GNOME and KDE version

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Noah Meyerhans wrote: I think it's reasonable to believe it would be easier to get [upstream] attention about a version that *many* distributions adopted. Additionally, even if upstream isn't willing to provide any help to distros shipping what they consider to be a stale version, the

Re: On cadence and collaboration

2009-08-05 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Jan Hauke Rahm wrote: I understand you've been talking to other distributions as well about syncing releases (or freezes) in order to ship same versions of major system components. Now, much of the discussion here is about the actual dates, i.e. the possible freeze in a few month as well as