Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-28 Thread Tom Furie
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:37:09PM +0100, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: informations. With apt-cache if I am running my debian, or with http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=foobar if I am not using A shortcut for this is http://packages.debian.org/packagename Cheers, Tom -- The

About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release

2012-11-27 Thread Morel Bérenger
When I decided to move TO Debian, one of my concerns was to be on a distro that sets its way, not a distro that follows. Debian moto is The Universal Operating System. And that is the appeal to me. I love standards. I would give my kingdom to have only .deb instead of 3 or 4 (RPM, tar.gz,

Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release

2012-11-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 10:18 +0100, Morel Bérenger wrote: There is Linux Standard Base which claim to be a standard for distros. Which reminds me of the file system hierarchy issue, on my multi-boot I've got Linux were e.g. /media is /media/directory /media/username/directory

Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release

2012-11-27 Thread Morel Bérenger
There is Linux Standard Base which claim to be a standard for distros. Which reminds me of the file system hierarchy issue, on my multi-boot I've got Linux were e.g. /media is /media/directory /media/username/directory /run/media/username/directory I can not really see the point of having

sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Jon Dowland
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:30:20AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Also very nice is the output of $ ls -l /bin/sh for Ubuntu it's not bash. For modern Debian installations it's not bash either. Switching /bin/sh to dash by default was done principally to make boot times quicker (dash is

shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Jon Dowland
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:53:30PM +0100, Morel Bérenger wrote: People can use other things than bash, I do not see the problem. And I think that someday I'll try zsh or csh. When I'll have the time :D You should go really left-field and try rc! (but not for /bin/sh.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE,

Re: sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 12:02 +, Jon Dowland wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:30:20AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Also very nice is the output of $ ls -l /bin/sh for Ubuntu it's not bash. For modern Debian installations it's not bash either. Switching /bin/sh to dash by default

Re: sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Morel Bérenger
Le Mar 27 novembre 2012 14:29, Ralf Mardorf a écrit : On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 12:02 +, Jon Dowland wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:30:20AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Also very nice is the output of $ ls -l /bin/sh for Ubuntu it's not bash. For modern Debian installations it's not

Re: sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Jon Dowland
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 02:29:15PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Does it really carry weight? With sysvinit, which spawns a lot of sh instances, yes. With something like systemd, no - it tries to solve the same problem in part by not spawning a shell lots of times. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to

Re: sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Tuesday 27 November 2012 12:02:34 Jon Dowland wrote: For modern Debian installations it's not bash either. Switching /bin/sh to dash by default was done principally to make boot times quicker (dash is smaller and faster to load than bash). Thanks for the information, Jon. I hadn't realised

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Beco
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Jon Dowland j...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:53:30PM +0100, Morel Bérenger wrote: People can use other things than bash, I do not see the problem. And I think that someday I'll try zsh or csh. When I'll have the time :D You should go really

Re: sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Kushal Kumaran
Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com writes: On Tuesday 27 November 2012 12:02:34 Jon Dowland wrote: For modern Debian installations it's not bash either. Switching /bin/sh to dash by default was done principally to make boot times quicker (dash is smaller and faster to load than bash). Thanks

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Jon Dowland
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:17:50PM -0300, Beco wrote: Never heard of it. What is rc? A shell. It's packaged in Debian, oddly enough in package 'rc'. May I suggest you try apt-cache show rc, or google? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of

Re: sh (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Jon Dowland
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 03:11:54PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote: Thanks for the information, Jon. I hadn't realised that! I've merrily carried on using bash. :-/ Bash is a lot friendlier and better suited as a login or interactive shell. The startup time is not so important for that situation.

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Kelly Clowers
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Beco r...@beco.cc wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Jon Dowland j...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:53:30PM +0100, Morel Bérenger wrote: People can use other things than bash, I do not see the problem. And I think that someday I'll try zsh

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Beco
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Jon Dowland j...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:17:50PM -0300, Beco wrote: Never heard of it. What is rc? A shell. It's packaged in Debian, oddly enough in package 'rc'. May I suggest you try apt-cache show rc, or google? Thanks! I tried

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread berenger . morel
I tried google, but without more keywords, rc was too little to search. When I search for a package's description, I first use debian's informations. With apt-cache if I am running my debian, or with http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=foobar if I am not using it. The 2nd is really

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Jon Dowland
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 03:43:00PM -0300, Beco wrote: I tried google, but without more keywords, rc was too little to search. Good point, sorry. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: shells (was Re: About standards Was: Re: Debian Installer 7.0 Beta4 release)

2012-11-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 22:37 +0100, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: I tried google, but without more keywords, rc was too little to search. When I search for a package's description, I first use debian's informations. With apt-cache if I am running my debian, or with