Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
Hi Enrico! This is truly brilliant. On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 12:52:53AM +0200, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello Debian Members, > > For some time, we have been having systemic issues that make GR > discussions painful. GRs themselves shouldn't be painful, and don't need > to be. Having a chilling

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Sergey B Kirpichev
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 06:24:52PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you still are on a debian > mailing list while you clearly stated you wanted to sever your ties with > Debian. And what's wrong? Anyone can participate in the discussion, isn't? One

Re: Re: Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Sergey B Kirpichev
> Please stop now. Or?...

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Milan Kupcevic
On 3/31/21 8:33 PM, Daniel Lenharo de Souza wrote: > So, > > Em 31/03/2021 19:52, Enrico Zini escreveu: >> Hello Debian Members, >>   * The more messages a person writes, the more the person cares, and the >>     more their opinion will be taken into account: people who only write >>     every

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Daniel Lenharo de Souza
So, Em 31/03/2021 19:52, Enrico Zini escreveu: Hello Debian Members, * The more messages a person writes, the more the person cares, and the more their opinion will be taken into account: people who only write every once in a while, clearly don't think the issue is important

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Tiago Bortoletto Vaz
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 19:53 Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello Debian Members, > > For some time, we have been having systemic issues that make GR > discussions painful. GRs themselves shouldn't be painful, and don't need > to be. Having a chilling effect to using GRs hurts Debian, and as a > project

spoiler alert (was Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian)

2021-03-31 Thread Holger Levsen
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 07:31:12PM -0400, Louis-Philippe Véronneau wrote: > Just to be crystal clear if it wasn't already, this is all satire. I think, aeh, hope, this is the funniest message today. -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Hernan Loureiro
someone can remind me please how to unsuscribe from.the deb lists pls this is annoying El mié., 31 de mar. de 2021 20:49, martin f krafft escribió: > Regarding the following, written by "Jessica Clarke" on 2021-04-01 at > 00:12 Uhr +0100: > > Swearing and personal attacks are great ways to

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Donald Norwood
On 3/31/21 7:12 PM, Jessica Clarke wrote: > On 1 Apr 2021, at 00:06, Alejandro Nadal wrote: >> >> How will "the strength of the wording" be measured? I am not a DD, just a >> debian user, curious about the new process. > > Swearing and personal attacks are great ways to demonstrate your

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread martin f krafft
Regarding the following, written by "Jessica Clarke" on 2021-04-01 at 00:12 Uhr +0100: Swearing and personal attacks are great ways to demonstrate your passion. Comparisons to communism, genocides and nazis are all particularly strong. It's also become increasingly obvious that men are

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Louis-Philippe Véronneau
On 2021-03-31 19 h 12, Jessica Clarke wrote: > On 1 Apr 2021, at 00:06, Alejandro Nadal wrote: >> >> How will "the strength of the wording" be measured? I am not a DD, just a >> debian user, curious about the new process. > > Swearing and personal attacks are great ways to demonstrate your

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Jessica Clarke
On 1 Apr 2021, at 00:06, Alejandro Nadal wrote: > > How will "the strength of the wording" be measured? I am not a DD, just a > debian user, curious about the new process. Swearing and personal attacks are great ways to demonstrate your passion. Comparisons to communism, genocides and nazis

Re: Willingness to share a position statement?

2021-03-31 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 09:12:24AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > On Wednesday, 24 March 2021 11:38:25 PM AEDT Steve McIntyre wrote: > > Freedom of speech does *not* mean freedom from consequences. > Here is a good reply to this very statement: > ~~~ > "Freedom of speech is supposed to imply

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Milan Kupcevic
On 3/31/21 6:52 PM, Enrico Zini wrote: [...] > > * When the discussion eventually dies down, the Debian Secretary will >review all messages and pronounce the winner. > [...] \o/ Finally, it was about the time to get this right once and for all. Milan

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Alejandro Nadal
How will "the strength of the wording" be measured? I am not a DD, just a debian user, curious about the new process. Also, doesn't this give more influence to those developers with more time to write more mails, if the number of messages will be taken into account? (If this message breaks the

Re: Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Milan Kupcevic
On 3/31/21 6:52 PM, Enrico Zini wrote: [...] > > To avoid confusion, we'll maintain the same acronym as before. The new > system will be called Debian Grandiose Reflection. > At least there will be no confusion!?! Milan

Announcing new decision making procedures for Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Enrico Zini
Hello Debian Members, For some time, we have been having systemic issues that make GR discussions painful. GRs themselves shouldn't be painful, and don't need to be. Having a chilling effect to using GRs hurts Debian, and as a project we need a way to poll for consensus on project choices and

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 30 Mar 2021 at 11:28PM +01, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Taowa
Sergey B Kirpichev, 2021-03-31 11:53 -0400: > "I decide who is a jew in the airforce" (c) > > This trans is a wrong trans, isn't? huh? -- Taowa (they) LOC FN35EM

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Kurt Roeckx
This option is now also on the website. Kurt

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Richard Laager
On 3/31/21 1:20 AM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 08:13:59PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. Can you elaborate on

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Richard Laager
On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Richard Laager
On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Tiago Bortoletto Vaz
[...] > > > > Libreboot explanation can be helpful here: > > > > https://libreboot.org/news/rms.html > > I stopped reading after "Thought Criminal", "accused of defending rape > in an Orwellian smear campaign" and "orchestrated by mainstream media". Lucky you, as it goes deeper on such

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Pierre-Elliott Bécue
Le mercredi 31 mars 2021 à 18:52:49+0300, Sergey B Kirpichev a écrit : > > I stopped reading after "Thought Criminal" ... > > Honestly, do what you want, but Trumpist > > "I decide who is a jew in the airforce" (c) > > This trans is a wrong trans, isn't? I could be wrong, but it seems to me

Re: Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Steve McIntyre
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 06:52:49PM +0300, Sergey B Kirpichev wrote: >> I stopped reading after "Thought Criminal" ... >> Honestly, do what you want, but Trumpist > >"I decide who is a jew in the airforce" (c) > >This trans is a wrong trans, isn't? Sergey: I don't know where you're going down this

Re: Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Sergey B Kirpichev
> I stopped reading after "Thought Criminal" ... > Honestly, do what you want, but Trumpist "I decide who is a jew in the airforce" (c) This trans is a wrong trans, isn't?

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Pierre-Elliott Bécue
Le mercredi 31 mars 2021 à 16:41:50+0200, Pasha a écrit : > On Wed, 2021-03-31 at 11:59 +0200, Gard Spreemann wrote: > > > > Sergey B Kirpichev writes: > > > > > Obviously, you want to turn the Debian into something "more than > > > that".  But have you fixed all bugs in the packages you do > >

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Pasha
On Wed, 2021-03-31 at 11:59 +0200, Gard Spreemann wrote: > > Sergey B Kirpichev writes: > > > Obviously, you want to turn the Debian into something "more than > > that".  But have you fixed all bugs in the packages you do > > support?) > > Is this how you behave when discussing political

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Milan Kupcevic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 3/30/21 6:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: [...] > > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any

Re: Cancel "culture" is a threat to Debian

2021-03-31 Thread Gard Spreemann
Sergey B Kirpichev writes: > Obviously, you want to turn the Debian into something "more than > that". But have you fixed all bugs in the packages you do support?) Is this how you behave when discussing political matters in general too? "This one important problem isn't fully resolved,

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Gard Spreemann
Jonathan Wiltshire writes: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of

Re: opinion on Choice 1

2021-03-31 Thread Pierre-Elliott Bécue
Le mercredi 31 mars 2021 à 06:48:45+, Ivan Shmakov a écrit : > > On 2021-03-28 20:23:38 +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > > Le dimanche 28 mars 2021 à 15:35:42+, Ivan Shmakov a écrit : > > In my previous letter, I’ve presented my general concerns about > the ‘open

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Micha Lenk
Hi all, On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:28:47PM +0100, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to > support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel > strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Holger Levsen
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:28:47PM +0100, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Paride Legovini
Jonathan Wiltshire wrote on 31/03/2021: This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking this GR; Debian already has

Re: opinion on Choice 1

2021-03-31 Thread Ivan Shmakov
> On 2021-03-28 20:23:38 +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > Le dimanche 28 mars 2021 à 15:35:42+, Ivan Shmakov a écrit : In my previous letter, I’ve presented my general concerns about the ‘open letter’ that Choice 1 seeks to ratify; irrespective (more or

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Zlatan Todoric
On 3/31/21 00:28, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking this GR; Debian already has

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Quoting Jonathan Wiltshire (2021-03-31 00:28:47) > This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to > support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel > strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking > this GR; Debian

Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events

2021-03-31 Thread Jonathan Wiltshire
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 08:13:59PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: > On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > Can you elaborate on the intended meaning here? Is "position"