Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 23:36:53)
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 22:26, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > My point above, reframed to your new context, is that regardless of
> > how overwhelmingly large the attack surface of GCC+linux is, the
> > attack surface of GCC+linux+
Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 22:00:04)
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 15:20, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >
> > Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 15:27:36)
> > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 14:15, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > > You apparently find it equally
Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 15:27:36)
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 14:15, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > You apparently find it equally sensible, specifically as a security
> > measure, a) apply ACLs on an otherwise massively multi-user-write-access
> > host and b) use a separ
Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 14:55:13)
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 13:47, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
[...]
> > > > Luca Boccassi writes ("Re: [RFC] General Resolution to deploy
> > > > tag2upload"):
> > > > > As far as I can tell, from what w
o a central system that
> can be analyzed and iteratively improved."
>
> So I don't think this is a good argument. One system is better than
> two. And we need to secure all of it anyway, as Salsa is a component
> of the solution anyway.
I read the analysis more that two system
Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 13:15:47)
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 12:03, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >
> > Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 12:28:21)
> > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 09:35, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Quoting Luca Boccass
Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 12:28:21)
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 09:35, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >
> > Quoting Luca Boccassi (2024-06-12 10:21:40)
> > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 02:31, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Luca Boccassi wri
e real uploads and the real repositories
> are on a separate and independent git forge, why have Salsa at all?
> Get rid of it and use the other forge exclusively."
I don't follow d-private, but sounds to me like that argument goes both
ways - i.e. also "if the real uploads and the real
Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2023-12-09 09:53:37)
> Quoting Paul Wise (2023-12-09 04:07:45)
> > On IRC it was mentioned that there are updates to the CRA that may
> > address the concerns of the FLOSS community.
> >
> > These blogs have updates at the top:
> >
&
about that to appear here:
https://edri.org/our-work/the-cyber-resilience-act-how-to-make-europe-more-digitally-resilient/
- Jonas
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ed to publish non-free installers
> under the current DSC/DFSG (which it actually is doing today; just
> hidden), but according to the DSC it is not part of the Debian system.
>
> /Simon
FWIW, I fully agree with Simon Josefsson on the above.
- Jonas
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al B gives the free installer less visibility than the non-free one.
> - Proposal C keeps the free installer and no longer hides the non-free ones.
> - Proposal D would be equivalent to NOTA in my understanding.
>
> Proposal C could use some more seconding. If you find that proposal C is
Proposal C uses the term
> > > "non-free"
> > > because that is where all non-free packages are still residing today.
> >
> > I think the problem is with "non-free section". I think Steve looks at
> > that like the non-free-firmware section i
considered part of the Debian system - i.e. "a
system of installer and installable packages" (which is different from
"an operating system resulting from executing an installer").
I worry that the multiple meanings of "system" in ballot texts will lead
to confusion/frustration over how to vote and how to interpret the
result of the vote.
- Jonas
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is the reason that I consider debian-installer an important part
of our main deliverable.
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r purity reason even though generally we would
promote another unofficial installer (and here the word "official"
refers to what is treated as formally our main project deliverable).
I expect your elaborating would help me see more possibilities.
- Jonas
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Quoting Bart Martens (2022-08-26 18:03:30)
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 04:18:19PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Bart Martens (2022-08-26 10:02:16)
> > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 07:06:01AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > > [...] it lacks a detail I fi
Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2022-08-26 16:18:19)
> I still urge you to make explicit what will not change. Perhaps borrow
> from Simons text, if you (like me) like that?
...Simon Richter!
- Jonas
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Quoting Bart Martens (2022-08-26 10:02:16)
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 07:06:01AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > [...] it lacks a detail I find crucial:
> > Explicitly spelling out whether or not images containing non-free bits
> > are official part of Debian or no
me too" posts here but) since I have
strongly ben in favor of using "offficial" label to indicate what we as
project can support, I agree that this is an approach that abandons such
label yet ensures explicitly in the text we vote on that "non-free" will
be clearly communi
are to do so, which
in my opinion goes against a core principle of our community.
Let's promote non-free installer more aggressively, but please let's
explicitly label it as not part of the product we claim is 100% free.
- Jonas
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Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2022-08-24 19:14:26)
> Quoting Bart Martens (2022-08-24 10:12:48)
> > =
> >
> > The Debian project is permitted to make distribution media (installer images
> > and live images) containing packages from the non
Quoting Bart Martens (2022-08-24 23:08:12)
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 07:14:26PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Bart Martens (2022-08-24 10:12:48)
> > > =
> > >
> > > The Debian project is permitted to make distrib
but communicated vastly different - which to me is
(unfortunately) a sensible reason to have them both on the ballot.
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ay-100%-free (as opposed to
Debian-the-archive-that-has-had-non-free-bits-for-ages)?
- Jonas
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Quoting Ansgar (2022-08-23 19:44:17)
> > On 2022-08-23 18:50, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > (I only see that being possible by treating the install image as not
> > > part of Debian, which I consider an unacceptable interpretation).
>
> For me installation media are
Quoting Holger Levsen (2022-08-23 17:33:27)
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 05:04:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > I would find it problematic if the official way to install Debian
> > *required* a non-DFSG image.
>
> would you also find it problematic if there were *t
Quoting Philip Hands (2022-08-23 10:44:55)
> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
>
> > Quoting Tobias Frost (2022-08-22 15:57:01)
> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 07:39:21AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> >> > Ansgar writes:
> >> >
> >> >
e to add, that I really appreciate the efforts of Steve and
think that I understand where he is coming from with his proposal - I
just fails to see how those concerns can be addressed within the
constraints that we have strongly defined as core scope for our system
(because in my understanding "our s
non-free bits, as
> writen
> out in "We will never make the system require the use of a non-free
> component."
> This GR does not violate this promise.
I understand how we will not require non-free bits getting *installed*.
The way I see it, with this change we will require
terpret this, only
to point out that your proposed GR is too vague. If obvious to you what
you propose, then perhaps you need to expand with references to the
definitions you find obvious - i.e. something more substantial than
above quoted text if your intent is for the definition to unambiguously
include crypto currencies!
That said, you will not have my support for this bill - I agree with
others suggesting we leave it to the appointed leader and delegated
teams.
Kind regards,
- Jonas
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at you quoted above seems to indicate to me
that Debconf _uses_ Debian, not that it is legally a part of Debian.
- Jonas
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Quoting Russ Allbery (2022-04-06 01:44:43)
> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> > Quoting Steve Langasek (2022-04-05 22:36:02)
> >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 02:39:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> >>> No we don't - we care about our users, and our users include th
Quoting Steve Langasek (2022-04-05 22:36:02)
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 02:39:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Julian Andres Klode (2022-03-31 12:31:18)
> > > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are
> > > the body who has the
ich includes the Donbas regions of Luhansk, as well as
> Crimea, which has already been illegaly annexed by Russia.
No we don't - we care about our users, and our users include those who
do evil.
- Jonas
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e census" you mean the code to compute the delta
between Debian and each of its derivatives.
I think the census is useful both to Debian itself and to derivatives.
Sadly I suspect that too few are aware of it, despite your promotion,
Paul.
Help getting the census scripts back on track requires Pyt
ion of upcoming votes might help (assuming that's even possible)?
Perhaps simply put an ordered list up somewhere at our wiki?
- Jonas
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an Archive Team" is fine. This is fair amount of
work, but it will help make debian not seem quite as archaic as I'm sure
it seems to new prospective users or developers. Thus it is valuable
work. But a GR does not seem necessary.
Thank you dkg for writing this mail. Full acknowledgement.
Che
for other reasons than it being illegal.
...But you really should ask the proper place where those interested and
skilled in those matters are subscribed.
- Jonas
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surrounding a vote, so such noticemight commonly
be missed.
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Quoting Bernd Zeimetz (2021-04-20 15:26:06)
> On 2021-04-20 12:50, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >
> > I genuinely think that more time preparing the ballot would have led
> > to fewer more well-written options on the ballot, and consequently a
> > higher likelihood tha
is
not that the concrete vote by all means should have not been rushed, but
that I do believe that taking the current vote as a concrete example the
time to prepare the ballot had a real effect on the outcome.
> I don't think that one can automatically assume that more discussion
> is better.
I agree.
- Jonas
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ite
different from rejecting all closure options presented on the ballot by
voting for the non-closure option.
- Jonas
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;blank", I changed my vote to wade
through all those options I did *not* want Debian to make and try rank
the severity of their badness - while being worried that my vote is
public so I expose my priority of evil thoughts to the World.
- Jonas
P.S.
This is *not* an invitation to
improve our situation, each of which come with their
> own set of upsides and downsides.
Amazingly unbiased summary of events, and sensible reasoning on how to
deal with the current complexities.
Thank you very much, Jonathan!
- Jonas
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nounces ...", but your version is
> good enough.
Seconded.
I really dislike this communication style, seemingly a direct
consequence of the choice to shorten the discussion time.
- Jonas
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Free Software Foundation.
>
>
>
Seconded.
I would have preferred more time to discuss wording, but that was not
sadly provided.
- Jonas
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y accepted?
If this one is accepted then I can only interpret the old one as missing
this option and if this option had been included then it would have won
over the other options.
Can anyone imagine voting in favor of this one with a different intent?
- Jonas
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oundation,
> and the members of the board of the Free Software Foundation."
>
> Though even that is a statement.
I'd sponsor this if a) neutrally worded and b) initiated before the
current GR as completed - i.e. driven by the lack of adequate time for
preparing the current GR instead of
s to compose a ballot for a vote: How to
transform those observations into a text for the ballot? Or if that is
absurd, how else to proceed (other than shrug and let the boting process
continue disregarding those observations?
- Jonas
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when we meet in person.
>
> END CHOICE TEXT
Seconded.
This text adresses the concerns I have raised on this list (as far I I
have so far been able to understand it - and due to the shortened
processing time I hope that anyone spotting issues in it does so in
time...).
Thanks, Jonathan!
Hi,
Quoting Ulrike Uhlig (2021-03-29 10:58:13)
> Sorry for my ignorance, but who are you? I cannot find your name in the
> Debian contributor list.
Sorry for my ignorance, but who are you to ask that? I cannot your name
in the Debian mailinglist inquisitor list.
Best
Jonas
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ware
> movement in order to achieve our joint goal of empowering all users to control
> technology.
>
> [0] https://status.fsf.org/notice/3796703
>
> === End text ===
Seconded.
Thanks, Santiago!
- Jonas
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Hi Sam,
Quoting Sam Hartman (2021-03-28 23:55:42)
> >>>>> "Jonas" == Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> There were a lot of messages here, and I may have missed some.
Sorry for my part of that: I wish I were able to express my opinions
more compactly.
> When I las
Quoting Pierre-Elliott Bécue (2021-03-28 20:31:01)
> Le dimanche 28 mars 2021 � 14:04:48+0200, Jonas Smedegaard a �crit�:
> > My involvement in this subthread was when Molly arguing that the
> > accusation was not harmful (using other words, yes, and we can
> > nitpick tha
Quoting Wouter Verhelst (2021-03-28 08:17:32)
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:46:03PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Wouter Verhelst (2021-03-27 18:19:57)
> > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 10:41:57AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > > Thanks for your
Hi Wouter,
Quoting Wouter Verhelst (2021-03-27 18:19:57)
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 10:41:57AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Thanks for your judgements(!), Luke and Enrico.
> >
> > For the record, I do not defend actions of RMS. I defend his right
> > t
Hi Martin,
Quoting Martin Steigerwald (2021-03-27 11:13:52)
> On addition: In a sense, Jonas, you said what I wrote below, I think.
> You warned about group shaming. And I may have misread your mail. Cause
> now I am not sure that you actually called him a monster. You wrote that
>
Quoting Timo Weingärtner (2021-03-27 11:51:40)
> 26.03.21 20:42 Jonas Smedegaard:
> > Quoting Calum McConnell (2021-03-26 20:14:50)
> > > > Any individual (including Debian members) wishing to (co-)sign
> > > > any of the open letters in question is invi
onster.
Only if we want to punish the monster is it relevant to explicitly judge
the monster.
It is my understanding that it is illegal for organisations to make such
explicit judgements, which is a reason for us to avoid explicit
judgement, even if that is in fact what we want to do.
- Jonas
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raged to do
so" would in my opinion radically change the message from an unbiased
"Debian does not recommend if you should personally support a petition
or not" to a biased "Debian recommends that you personally support a
petition". I would *not* second such change
n has a leading position. Instead, we will continue to
> > work with groups and individuals who foster diversity and equality in
> > the Free Software movement in order to achieve our joint goal of
> > empowering all users to control technology.
> >
> [0] https://status.fsf.org
ot;further discussion", may find this agreeable to
vote for.
- Jonas
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I will write one.
Please do - I will reconsider my support based on what that turns out to
be (and really I hesitate: As already mentioned this text seem
overlapping with another smaller proposed text).
- Jonas
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Quoting Dominik George (2021-03-26 13:26:09)
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 11:50:31AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > [replying only to -vote - please avoid cross-posting!]
>
> OK, but you actually replied only to -devel instead of -vote.
Arrgh.
> > Quoting Dominik George
Hi Anarcat,
Quoting Antoine Beaupré (2021-03-25 20:11:45)
> Hey what's up doc,
>
> On 2021-03-25 00:41:41, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting M dB (2021-03-24 23:55:23)
> >> A few thoughts:
> >>
> >> - I don't like the term "cancel" because I
Quoting Antoine Beaupré (2021-03-25 20:13:42)
> On 2021-03-25 19:13:09, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > I dislike the conclusive judgemental framing of the previously
> > referenced open letter, and consider it wrong for Debian as an
> > organisation to make direct demands on ho
the
> wording restricted to the current document in question.
>
> Could this be changed to something along the lines:
>
> """
> Any individual (including Debian members) wishing to (co-)sign the open letter
> in question is invited to do this in person.
> "&
actions in the initially proposed text,
may find this agreeable to vote for.
- Jonas
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hip positions or not.
>
> Any individual (including Debian members) is free to issue such statements or
> (co-)sign any open letter.
> ---8<---8<---8<---
Seconded
(for the record, I would also second a proposed text in the style of FSF
Europe, so please don't take this as discouragemen
in a difficult spot.
If you think that an alternative statement should be made instead, then
propose that alternative and if enough others support that (the process
of "seconding") then it will appear as another option on the voting
ballot.
- Jonas
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tead distancing itself and making clear why (without using specific
labels as if some court ruling had already taken place, which is not the
case).
- Jonas
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much, and has a bitter taste in my mouth.
- Jonas
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management be shamed? Depends on whether
I sneezed at work, not if it was public knowledge that I was a sneezer
and clueless about how viruses spread - those features have *nothing* to
do with my ability to serve food at a restaurant (regardless of my very
presence in the restaurant might
Quoting Gard Spreemann (2021-03-23 16:40:32)
>
> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
>
> > Quoting Gard Spreemann (2021-03-23 16:18:10)
> >> Is there a fundamental difference between paying someone to do
> >> "non-fun administrative tasks" like accou
t;
> Is there a fundamental difference between paying someone to do
> "non-fun administrative tasks" like accounting, and paying someone to
> help out with orphaned/RFA'd packages (cf. Christian Kastner's recent
> "How to motivate contributors to work on QA" question
s and tackles painpoints in
the project at large?
Kind regards
jonas
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Quoting Xavier (2020-03-27 09:38:54)
> Le 27/03/2020 à 09:22, Ulrike Uhlig a écrit :
> > Hi!
> >
> > On 26.03.20 15:05, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> >> On 26/03/20 at 14:42 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
For the avoidance of doubt, I wrote none of below quoted
n this would not just result in an RC bug, I guess?
See https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html
- Jonas
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ort when sharing example cases :-)
- Jonas
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Quoting Kurt Roeckx (2019-12-06 23:06:28)
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2019 at 10:50:32PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> >
> > That's 5, I'll update everything.
>
> The website should be updated very soon.
Thanks a lot, Kurt!
- Jonas
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uing that we all have different
> interests and motivations. That is in our general interest to try to
> work things out with others, to compromise, to reach solutions or find
> alternatives that might be satisfactory enough for the various parties
> involved, to create an environment wh
of
>non-systemd systems, are appropriate for Debian communication fora;
>likewise references to bugs which are not relevant to the topic at
>hand.
>
>Communications on Debian fora on these matters should all be
>encouraging and pleasant, even when discussing technical
ages of our distribution
> (some of which might be even unforeseen by us). From servers, to desktops
> or deeply embedded; from general purpose to very specifically tailored
> usages. Be those projects hardware related or software based, libraries,
> daemons, entire desktop environments
y anyone.
Gitlab subgroups would solve this problem: Move every Debian package
into the 'debian' group, but allow subgroups in there:
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/foo-team/libfoo
Cheers
jonas
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e with one account. That's very convenient and something
I miss on lists.debian.org.
Cheers
jonas
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that could be done bimontly and the bits from the DPL mails could
be used to announce the polls and the resulting delegations.
What do the candidates think about these ideas?
Cheers,
jonas
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/03/msg00101.html
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Hi Alex,
Alexander Wirt:
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Jonas Meurer wrote:
>> Alexander Wirt:
>>> In my experience as a former mailman admin and listadmin mailman is a
>>> no-go.
>>> Getting our feature set even nearly into mailman is impossible, takes years
>&g
us an unmaintainable thing. I don't want to ever run a
> bigger mailman setup again.
Can you give an example, what from "our feature set" is missing in
mailman? Also, you probably mean mailman2, right? Have you taken a look
at mailman3 recently?
Cheers,
jonas
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is
means constraints like concurrent users and bandwidth load and
reliability are same as when using https://meet.jit.si/ - benefit is
convenience of all Riot users in a Matrix room being auto-registered for
the Jitsi Meet room as well.
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist &
because??) I stated it explicitly?
>
> I've set "Reply-To" to debian-devel and please if this should be
> really discussed lets move it there.
>
> I'm adding Jonas Smedegaard (as far as I know the only active
> developer - Jonas please correct me if I'm wrong but Gi
the your intelligent input, Russ - as always!
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
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are talking about here:
Quoting Aigars Mahinovs (2014-10-30 11:06:47)
Have other distros switched to _only_ supporting systemd? Changing the
default is not the same.
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely
Quoting Josh Triplett (2014-10-25 11:52:28)
[Please CC me on replies; I'm not subscribed to -vote, so for mails not
CCed to me, I end up responding via the archives and manually quoting
via copy/paste.]
Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
Quoting Josh Triplett (2014-10-24 16:27:27)
Aigars Mahinovs
' is for the minority of cases where a program is not
portable or is not useful on some architectures. Where possible, the
program should be made portable instead.
Notice the should near the end of above.
Do you consider init 1 more similar to kernel or more similar to PHP?
- Jonas
--
* Jonas
Ian's text as a war between systemd and
sysvinit - that's anything but basically fine!
@Ian: I would appreciate if you commented on this.
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before
also lack an executive summary of that: The last GR was not
which-init-system, but which-system-by-default.
This GR is not anti-last-GR but refining -what-else-than-default with
-and-more-than-default-must-be-supported.
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf
Quoting Nikolaus Rath (2014-10-20 05:19:03)
Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk writes:
Quoting Nikolaus Rath (2014-10-19 20:16:37)
Do you consider uselessd to be the same init system as systemd? To
me this looks like a legitimate fork.
Or are you saying that at least one is really meant to mean
Quoting Nikolaus Rath (2014-10-20 05:29:10)
Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk writes:
Quoting Nikolaus Rath (2014-10-19 20:21:59)
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk writes:
David Weinehall writes (Re: Alternative proposal: support for alternative
init systems is desirable
that
provides -- most of -- the systemd interfaces) would solve all your
worries?
There are many ways to twist words, yes.
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
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