Does GSoC help develop communities?

Hi ComDev, I am a PhD student from the Univesity of São Paulo, Brazil. I've been studying the range of outcomes of programs such as GSoC. So far, we have created a model of what motivates students to enter GSoC, considering both students and mentors perception. Our next task involves

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Ok, skip it then. However, I'm concerned that what we don't measure, we don't know how to improve. On Dec 6, 2016 3:36 AM, "Ulrich Stärk" wrote: > On 05.12.16 22:24, Rich Bowen wrote: > > So ... stepping back a bit here. Are you saying that even attempting to > > measure

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 05.12.16 22:24, Rich Bowen wrote: > So ... stepping back a bit here. Are you saying that even attempting to > measure outcomes is harmful, because we might draw the wrong conclusions? > > This is a completely new notion to me. > > You say: > > "I am reluctant to simply collect some data

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

I think I agree with both of you... On 12/05/2016 09:41 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: I have seen way too many metrics being misused to justify the wrong actions ...measuring the wrong thing at the wrong time or in the wrong way can be *extremely* harmful, yes... On 12/05/2016 01:07 PM, Daniel

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

So ... stepping back a bit here. Are you saying that even attempting to measure outcomes is harmful, because we might draw the wrong conclusions? This is a completely new notion to me. You say: "I am reluctant to simply collect some data because I am missing a clear question what we are trying

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 05.12.16 17:54, Rich Bowen wrote: > > > On 12/05/2016 07:41 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: >>> Or, at the very least, can we make a commitment to track this data going forward? >> Let me play the devil's advocate here: What for? >> >> GSoC is completely free for the ASF (on the contrary, we

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 09:41 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > On 05.12.16 17:45, Rich Bowen wrote: >> >> >> On 12/05/2016 07:41 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: Or, at the very least, can we make a commitment to track this data going > forward? >>> Let me play the devil's advocate here: What for? >>> >>> GSoC is

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

So, since this thread seems to have been perceived as "justify your existence, you layabouts!" let me rephrase, in the hopes of being a little more constructive. Apologies to any who took my question as an attack or accusation. It was neither. Do we have a comprehensive list of project/particpant

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 01:08 PM, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote: > On 5 December 2016 at 17:07, Jacob Champion wrote: >> Perhaps a bit off-topic for this thread in particular, but in all >> seriousness, I like this idea a lot. As you've noted, older projects and >> established

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 5 December 2016 at 17:07, Jacob Champion wrote: > Perhaps a bit off-topic for this thread in particular, but in all > seriousness, I like this idea a lot. As you've noted, older projects and > established developers don't always know which parts of their projects need >

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 08:59 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > I disagree with the need for comdev to have a strategy. I'd like to respond to just this remark. ComDev has a goal. It is stated in the resolution that created the PMC. That goal is: to establish a Project Management Committee charged with

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Yes, this would be hugely helpful. This page - http://community.apache.org/gsoc- should be inward-facing as well as outward facing. It should tell projects what they should expect to spend (time, effort, not necessarily money) and what the benefits are likely to be. If that's anecdotal, great.

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Why not Zoidberg? If someone wants to gather stats, that's great - if someone wants to gather stories etc, that is also great. One doesn't exclude the other, and considering we have nothing at the moment, anything is a step up. With regards, Daniel On 12/05/2016 06:18 PM, Alex Harui wrote: >

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

IMO, rather than gathering statistics, it would be better to gather stories, tips and advice. It doesn't seem to me that statistics would be helpful, folks just need to know that it can have great benefits or great cost and some ideas of the reasons why. Even if it hasn't been helpful in the

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 08:15 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote: Perhaps ComDev can act like a prpject visitor. (Not auditor or inspector!) "No one expects the ComDev Inquisition!!" We can make a wiki page with a randomised list of all ASF projects, a quick checklist (smaller than maturity model) and just

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Hi Rich, Do you prefer to see cumulative statistics or PMC wise? With a small effort, I can get detailed statistics from Apache Airavata. GSoC has been great for the project and is one of the primary sources to induct fresh blood. We have a decent retention rate, students have stayed around,

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Nobody is suggesting we have a 10 year plan with milestones and deliverables. I'm suggesting that when we do something under the heading of "community development" we have an obligation to make some attempt to measure it to determine if it actually moves us in that direction. Nobody is saying

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 07:41 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: >> Or, at the very least, can we make a commitment to track this data going >> > forward? > Let me play the devil's advocate here: What for? > > GSoC is completely free for the ASF (on the contrary, we even get a small > amount for every accepted >

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 07:37 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > What money are we putting into this? I have no idea. That would be part of the data that I, as a member, would really like to know. > > Cheers, > > Uli > > On 03.12.16 23:16, Rich Bowen wrote: >> So, this question was asked several weeks ago,

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 07:41 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: >> Or, at the very least, can we make a commitment to track this data going >> > forward? > Let me play the devil's advocate here: What for? > > GSoC is completely free for the ASF (on the contrary, we even get a small > amount for every accepted >

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Perhaps something for ComDev is to work on engagement with software developers who don't currently consider themselves part of any ASF community, but use our software without contributing (much) back. These are generally more experienced than GSOC students, and while they won't have as much

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

I think GSOC is very valuable, both for the students and the ASF projects that participate. Even if a student does not hang around after GSOC (were they made committer?) it is still good for communities to get fresh drive and ideas, and ask questions which established committers might not have

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 03:46 PM, Shane Curcuru wrote: > Ulrich Stärk wrote on 12/5/16 9:27 AM: >> On 05.12.16 14:30, Daniel Gruno wrote: >>> On 12/05/2016 01:41 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > ...snip... >>> But this goes beyond GSoC in my mind. We should be looking at ALL ComDev >>> projects and evaluate what

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Ulrich Stärk wrote on 12/5/16 9:27 AM: > On 05.12.16 14:30, Daniel Gruno wrote: >> On 12/05/2016 01:41 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: ...snip... >> But this goes beyond GSoC in my mind. We should be looking at ALL ComDev >> projects and evaluate what we want to keep, what isn't working, and what >> needs

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 05.12.16 14:30, Daniel Gruno wrote: > On 12/05/2016 01:41 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: >> On 03.12.16 23:16, Rich Bowen wrote: >>> So, this question was asked several weeks ago, and, so far, we have no >>> statistics. I wonder if, now that there appears to be some interest >>> around GSoC 2017

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 02:59 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote: >> ...The task of ComDev is developing community. If we don't have any data or >> interest in acquiring such to show that this is in fact helping towards >>

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Hi, On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote: > ...The task of ComDev is developing community. If we don't have any data or > interest in acquiring such to show that this is in fact helping towards > that, then we should consider whether the current strategy is

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 12/05/2016 01:41 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote: > On 03.12.16 23:16, Rich Bowen wrote: >> So, this question was asked several weeks ago, and, so far, we have no >> statistics. I wonder if, now that there appears to be some interest >> around GSoC 2017 starting up, someone could look back at their

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On 03.12.16 23:16, Rich Bowen wrote: > So, this question was asked several weeks ago, and, so far, we have no > statistics. I wonder if, now that there appears to be some interest > around GSoC 2017 starting up, someone could look back at their notes and > answer some of these questions. > >

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

What money are we putting into this? Cheers, Uli On 03.12.16 23:16, Rich Bowen wrote: > So, this question was asked several weeks ago, and, so far, we have no > statistics. I wonder if, now that there appears to be some interest > around GSoC 2017 starting up, someone could look back at their

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

So, this question was asked several weeks ago, and, so far, we have no statistics. I wonder if, now that there appears to be some interest around GSoC 2017 starting up, someone could look back at their notes and answer some of these questions. While it's cool that folks are spending time on GSoC,

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Yes, that was the very case for us in Taverna, where two students got engaged because of GSOC advertising, even if they didn't participate in the GSOC programme (we lacked mentor capacity), so they co-mentored each other instead. Both are now committers. Related SSI blog post, "Downloading

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

Also there may be students who have who actually did not take in part in GSOC for Apache, but got involved with Apache because of GSOC ,and still stick around. On 16 November 2016 at 15:48, Nick Burch wrote: > On Wed, 16 Nov 2016, Rich Bowen wrote: > >> It would be great to

Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?

On Wed, 16 Nov 2016, Rich Bowen wrote: It would be great to have some kind of statistics on how GSoC helps projects longer term. Do students stick around? Does the code written actually get incorporated into releases? Does it in fact contribute to the mission of Community Development, or is it

Does GSoC help develop communities?

It would be great to have some kind of statistics on how GSoC helps projects longer term. Do students stick around? Does the code written actually get incorporated into releases? Does it in fact contribute to the mission of Community Development, or is it just a nice summer job for these students?