Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC is designed to break mail, Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-13 Thread John R Levine
On Thu, 13 Apr 2023, Dotzero wrote: It also isn't that " IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOUR MAIL GETS LOST". It matters but there is a calculus regarding the tradeoffs of a very small percentage (in the case of my former a very small fraction of a percent) of email not getting delivered vs the damage

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC is designed to break mail, Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-13 Thread Dotzero
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 9:41 AM John R Levine wrote: > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023, Neil Anuskiewicz wrote: > > If DMARC can protect domains from spoofing which I believe ends up > > costing over $14 billion per year. Forget about the $14 billion and > > think how this crime spree affects people’s view

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC is designed to break mail, Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-12 Thread John R Levine
I note that you didn't write "MUST NOT". I heartily concur with "shouldn't" or SHOULD NOT. I still have issues with "MUST NOT". Keep in mind that MUST NOT doesn't mean "do this and you will die", it means "do this and you won't interoperate" which seems exactly correct here. SHOULD NOT

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC is designed to break mail, Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-12 Thread Dotzero
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 9:41 AM John R Levine wrote: > > When we say that mail systems that don't fit the DMARC threat profile > shouldn't publish DMARC policies, we have good reasons to say so, and > that's what our standards need to say if we're serious about > interoperating. > > R's, >

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC is designed to break mail, Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-12 Thread Hector Santos
> On Apr 12, 2023, at 9:41 AM, John R Levine wrote: > > When we say that mail systems that don't fit the DMARC threat profile > shouldn't publish DMARC policies, we have good reasons to say so, and that's > what our standards need to say if we're serious about interoperating. > With

Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARC is designed to break mail, Example of Indirect Mail Flow Breakage with p=reject?

2023-04-12 Thread John R Levine
On Tue, 11 Apr 2023, Neil Anuskiewicz wrote: If DMARC can protect domains from spoofing which I believe ends up costing over $14 billion per year. Forget about the $14 billion and think how this crime spree affects people’s view But it obviously can't do that, and what it does do happens