I don't know whether other wikipedias have similar policies, but on
the Italian Wikipedia an article which is just a machine translation
can be speedy deleted according to our policies. The reason is that
machine translations are not good enough and the autotranslated text
is too difficult to
These days Google and other translate tools are good enough to use as
the starting basis for an translated article
No, it's far not true - at least for such target language as Ukrainian etc.
So any attempt of push translation will be almost the disaster...
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 3:57 AM,
2) We do not cater to the wishes and desires of any group, no exception. If
we cater one, we have to cater a second, then a third and so on and on.
It's the very core of the whole this issue.
That's why it's so ...mission critical to stay very firm with WP:5P
with all due respect to all and
There is no problem
with what consensus on different wikis decides, be that about article
wording
Is that really so?
... and please don't mix that with personal, by own choice made
editorial decision(s)
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Prodego prod...@gmail.com wrote:
Talking about the
Oh well, if any community is completely free to define what is neutral... :(
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Prodego prod...@gmail.com wrote:
There are some constraints on what is written - it is supposed to be a
neutrally presented encyclopedia. But if a particular wiki's community comes
No, that's completely incorrect. Wikipedias are per language, not per
country, and no country owns the wiki in its language.
I'm completely agree on that and would add (to make it closer to
context of Excirial wording):
... nor per country neither per culture, and no culture own no
Wikipedia
So? Is every single rule on Wikipedia completely determined by NPOV?
As to the best of my understanding
Each and every single rule on Wikipedia is completely determined by
WP:5P (and NPOV is one of them) in sense that no rule may contradict
to 5P.
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Andre Engels
...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com
wrote:
No, that's completely incorrect. Wikipedias are per language, not per
country, and no country owns the wiki in its language.
I'm completely agree on that and would add (to make it closer to
context
I like (and support) most of all the following wording
... there's a lot to be said for being
motivated enough to do it that you learn the systems without any help,
becoming a part of the community the way most of us did. But just
relying on those mechanisms does restrict our editor base a
If wikipedia is to survive it needs to be fun. If wikipedia is going
to get a broad coverage it needs to be easy.
Exactly!
Given that 99% of the population is over 6 billion people 1 edit every
ten days would result in a lot of worthwhile edits.
As to the best of my belief the healthier
I would support Gerard's point that Wikipedia needs to have strong
community (social network in modern buzzwords) as all such projects
are results of well coordinated effort of community (with work
differentiation etc.) but not of chaotic crowd/horde of individuals.
Common goal and work means
Hello James,
It seems to me (moreover I'm quite sure) that nobody is talking about
making content editing more complicate and/or about fancy and nasty
distracting stuff like different bellswhistles.
But now it's standard for any site to have well-structured facepages
(profiles) to provide for
Hi Thomas,
I appreciate a lot your warning and hint
This will NOT get things out of spam that are already in it, though.
Search for in:spam to:lists.wikimedia.org to find them and Not
Spam them manually.
as I never noticed before that checkbox
Also apply filter to XXX conversations below.
explanation that it was just mistake :) 'cause
'somebody' was too much in hurry and didn't check the name.
Sincerely,
Pavlo Shevelo
2010/6/8 Delphine Ménard notafi...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Dear Michael,
on one side, thank you
The basic attitude has to be that paid developers are treated
identically to volunteers, except that you can tell the former what to
do and expect them to put in more time. There should not be
communication between paid developers and the community, paid
developers should be an integral
Well, he might turn it another way:
He checked in person whether no real state secret is presented to
public in that article :)
... or (making some good PR for Wikimainia ;) ) that he checked
himself whether article is good enough as Wikipedia project is so
important (and because some of those
... many are unaware
that it is even possible for them to edit.
Recently I discovered, that it's true
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:26 AM, James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com wrote:
Having trouble posting. Trying again:
We had a banner last year to raise funds for the WMF. Unsure if anyone has
be great!
And again
Hope that helps.
Yes it does. A lot.
-- Pavlo Shevelo [SUL real name]
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:35 AM, Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org wrote:
2009/9/22 Eugene Eric Kim ee...@blueoxen.com:
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com
wrote
)
An end-game where the legal entity applies a rubber stamp is fine, but a
prerequisite for that is that a decision has already been made in some
manner.
I decide to copy his comment to here in order to stress what was said by Ray.
-- Pavlo Shevelo [SUL real name]
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 1:47 AM
Shevelo [SUL real name]
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote:
Eugene Eric Kim wrote:
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Pavlo Shevelo wrote:
___
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
in it)?
At the very bottom of that page one can read
stakeholders need to be transparent in their decision-making process.
It's exactly my point.
--Pavlo Shevelo [SUL]
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Eugene Eric Kim ee...@blueoxen.com wrote:
Hi everybody,
For those of you who don't know me, I'm
the strategy that emerges from thoughtful interaction
between the community and the foundation.
Not sure what your definition of the community is. There are lots of...
It's misfit, isn't it?
... are Brian and Eugene speaking in different languages?
-- Pavlo Shevelo [SUL]
On Tue, Sep 15
* Wikisource -- better native support for side-by-side translations,
annotations, and extracting/citing primary source material from the
other sites like Wikipedia would be very helpful.
Same thing is in need for Wikiquote as well while I do believe
that
... extracting/citing primary source
presuming that it might :)
be obvious that if my mail address says
Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@...
so my SUL should be (and it is) Pavlo Shevelo :)
I've noticed that some signatures on this list do contain account/SUL
information, but seemingly those are in minority (much less than 50%)
On Fri, Sep
-reading (it's tough to be really on-line among native
speakers and never miss something essential)
And yes, in this case minutes will be just summary (if references
to log segments will be included it will be greatly helpful).
-- Pavlo Shevelo
[SUL] Pavlo Shevelo
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:58 PM
Isn't temporarily blocking such a user a way to calm him/her down? I
Yes it might be the way, but far not universal way.
And it should be the last (ultimate) in moderator toolkit, far not the
first to be used.
--Pavlo Shevelo
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute
Yes. You are right about that. So, may we (insiders) promise not to
have such discourse? :)
It's a problem with mailing versus face to face meeting: it's
impossible to see whether you crossed your heart or crossed you
fingers while writing that :-P
[Disclaimer: It's just Friday evening joke,
I believe what was meant by this is that we should codify policies the
same way that all large Wikipedias have codified policies, NOT that we
should adopt the same policies as en.wp or any other for that matter.
If we're talking about Wikipedias - yes.
But if we are talking about moderation
That's usually what codification means :-)
Ah-ha!
Many thanks! :)
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Mark Williamson node...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com
wrote:
Or you mean 'codification' as 'put all rules systematically/structured
this subject with the project communities? How does this appointment
have any impact on the activities within the projects?
This question is equivalent to the question:
How does any appointment to the board have any impact on the
activities within the projects?
isn't it?
... or even
How does
by the way) is concern of integral pan-Wikipedia
community so the only choice is teamwork with Siebrand?
Sincerely,
Pavlo Shevelo
On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Gerard
Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
For me while interesting, it is hardly new and therefore
on the interwikilinks that bring our projects together.
In answer to your question, the activities that Siebrand is involved in are
best done in a collaborative way. Actually given the nature of Wikipedia it
is the only way.
Thanks,
Gerard
2009/8/16 Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com
Hello
OK,
There might be two (or more? :-) alternative models of that...
usurpation (?is that the right word?):
1. conspiracy of nitwits, which got organised into flock/gang/horde
and don't want anybody else to play with their beloved toy (even to
cross the border of their virtual territory);
2. some
For me Google Groups do a good job and it's enough.
Yes, I would support the proposal to look at Google Groups (as
alternative mailing list platform) closer.
As we can see Wikimedia Brasil and Wikimedia UK are using that
platform and perhaps not only them (I'm pushing this platform for
Wikimedia
The training is typically an apprenticeship under the senior...
To my regret training/apprenticeship does not fit to everyone
can..., be bold! set of wikimedia slogans/motto.
As to me I would stand behind (vote for) training and apprenticeship.
On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:23 AM, David
A full pairwise defeats table will be posted shortly.
Would you please add detailed statistic summary (number of people
voted, %% of eligible wikipedians, dice and slice of those to projects
groups etc.) ?
... I mean as detailed as possible - more is better
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:47 PM,
The things you are asking for should be possible with already
available public data. These things would be good, but they are
things that *you* can do. :)
Maybe my English is not good enough but I don't get it:
Either you suggest that it will be possible or you're quite sure about that?
...
{{You're laughing on me }}
:(
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Gregory Maxwellgmaxw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Pavlo Shevelopavlo.shev...@gmail.com wrote:
Maybe my English is not good enough but I don't get it:
Your English is far better than my Ukrainian. I
I don't think so. Your English is better than my whatever
language. is a honest response.
Thank you, Milos, I appreciate your input.
I meant another... aspect - like
Rough eligibility can be derived from edit histories. This is a bit
harder to calculate, though anyone with a toolserver
The list of users who have voted is available at
https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:SecurePoll/list/17
Some names/nicks there appeared crossed (by horizontal line).
Would somebody please explain what does it mean?
2009/8/8 Jon Harald Søby jhs...@gmail.com:
2009/8/8 John
I was thinking particularly of ... Wikifamily (Rodovid),
If you're thinking of _this_ Rodovid http://en.rodovid.org/ (frontend
is http://rodovid.org/) I would strongly vote for that.
It's really is
useful for significant audiences,
and
implementable in an
elegant way
In fact it's
Just curious...where in WP do you think POV and specialist works
could fit?
Well,
1) POV (best of them being articulated properly) are the only
possible ingredients (raw materials) for NPOV producing. Are you able
to create NPOV from scratch (from nothing)?
2) Specialists will (and they
The whole thread is about long-term sustainability. At least, I
started it with this intention, mentioning that WMF started to work on
that (Strategy plan).
Am I right understanding your words following way:
This thread was started as PR action for WMF Strategy plan?
:-P
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009
Wrong! label.
I'm aware that this conclusion could help (serve) only as part of
solution but not the complete solution.
So? :)
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Nikola Smolenskismole...@eunet.yu wrote:
Дана Friday 24 July 2009 16:42:06 Pavlo Shevelo написа:
Anyone else concerned by this line
Pavlo, just try not to think synchronically. A teenager in her or his
17 is probably interested more in music than in nuclear physics, but
just in two years she or he may be a valuable contributor in that
scientific field. And I think that it is clever to invest time and
energy even in 12
John,
Thanks a lot - you made my Saturday! ;)
Is it somehow possible to let newcomers write articles together with
oldtimers until they learn the most basic things?
But why (?) we suggest that it's impossible?
If we will put that as (realized) aim this is very possible - we
should just to
Mark,
I appreciate your input to this discussion as well as I believe you
regarding your contribution to en:WP.
Both of us (you and me) know that there are bright young people
(geeks etc.) and ... not so bright. Besides I'm willing not to be
snobbish geek and I trust that people (whatever their
Oh, Milos...
We were talking about articles on nuclear physics, aren't we?
... and you suddenly switched to stewardship. Why?
With all due respect to the institution of stewardship (and each of
our Stewards personally ;) ) what's the big deal with that in context
of what we were talking before
Hello Milos,
What an informative note you made!
Thanks a lot!
There is a lot to think about but as for meantime would you please
provide more details on
If we assume that our target groups
are between 15 and 24...
(and you never went over age of 35 in your analisys)
?
As a part of that: do
Here we are not looking at 15 year olds, we are looking
at retired academics as the future of our user base.
That's right point!
If Wikipedia is education tool we should (!) think about something
more than cross-education of teenagers and students
As a matter od fact teenagers contribute
Do you have any ideas how to get them? As I still believe, for many
articles this is a meta issue, meaning that it is likely that only a few
people in the world have necessary expertise AND a wish to edit the
articles, and they all speak English, but may have random mothertongues
(not
...@eunet.yu wrote:
Henning Schlottmann wrote:
Quite frankly, a 15 years old can't contribute to de-WP anymore. Not
even 20 years olds can. De-WP has reached a level where undergraduates
Pavlo Shevelo wrote:
As a matter od fact teenagers contribute mainly to articles about
sports
Hello Teofilo,
I appreciate a lot that you rose up this issue of confusion (I was
planning to do that myself a bit later).
I'm from Ukrainian WP (recently - from WMF chapter for Ukraine as
well) and I've met many times those confusions/misunderstandings
starting from
http://uk.wikipedia.org
vs.
that the ISO 3166 code for the United Kingdom is
gb, while uk is unused; our usage however mirrors that of the country
code top level
domainshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_code_top-level_domain
.)
2009/7/22 Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com
Hello Teofilo,
I appreciate a lot that you
I'm sure there are several other cases as well.
I'm quite sure that was the main reason to pick this issue up to this
mailing list.
It seems that it's high time to create some page on Meta to place
whole list there and to collect there precedents how such issue were
solved.
On Wed, Jul 22,
... At some point we will probably want to set
up our own server(s) and then the confusion will be eliminated.
I don't get it why elimination depends on hosting.
Anyhow is it possible to have some explicit estimation about when at
some point could happen?
It
might make sense to put a note
to former.
There should not be any real problem to link wikimedia.org.uk directly
to Wikimedia UK chapter wiki (wherever it's hosted).
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/22 Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com:
... At some point we will probably want
Hi Andrew,
Could we take this offline and start a bilateral discussion rather than
doing this via an open mailing list.
Shure, we *have to* :) do so
No sense to bother everybody by details.
Pavlo Shevelo
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Andrew
Turveyandrewrtur...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi
How about a new mailing list. Wikimedia-uk-uk-l ?
What for?
(: To arrange mailing between two chapters? :)
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Cary Bassc...@wikimedia.org wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Pavlo Shevelo wrote:
Hi Andrew,
Could we take this offline
Would you please be more clear in
This sort of thing affects the quality of our projects in languages
other than English.
?
I mean what kind of affects (positive/negative) do you mean and what
is the cause mechanism between such governmental rulings and quality
of projects in local (national)
English is the last lingua franca
So it's better to say Lingua Anglica
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,869957,00.html
;)
... In 20-30 years we'll have good
enough translators
Do you mean computer tools like Google Translate or human interpreters?
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at
...he had to learn French and German well enough to read
I'd like to stress that he needed French *and* German meaning that in
any field of activity dominating lingua franca (or lingua anglica ) is
not the only foreign language that one will need to know in order to
really profess that field.
to be reedited later
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:19 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/10 Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shev...@gmail.com:
Would you please be more clear in
This sort of thing affects the quality of our projects in languages
other than English.
?
I mean what kind of affects (positive
to create special wiki page to coodinate the
consolidation process it can help
Regards,
Pavlo Shevelo
Kyiv, Ukraine
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:47 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
There was a Wikipedians group which was apparently started for
networking (which in practice seemed to mean
We here in Ukraine share your feelings of deep sorrow.
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Aquila says:
“… there are at least one hundred known deaths, some of them children
and up to 50,000 people made homeless”
Please accept our condolences.
Pavlo
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 4:04 PM,
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