[Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2011-01-05 Thread Juliana da Costa José
2011/1/5, Erik Moeller wrote: Their own editor still appears to be under active development at this point. I didn't see any pointers to either a code repository or a demo yet. Yes, this is correct. The status is in development. Releasedata estimated Cebit 2011. *

[Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2011-01-04 Thread Juliana da Costa José
Hello all, about WYSIWYG have a look to to this links: * http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WissensWert/75_-_Einsatz_des_TWX_WYSIWYG_Editors * http://www.wiki4enterprise.org/index.php/Datei:Artikelbearbeitung_Twoonix.jpg.png TWOONIX is working on an on an MediaWiki based editor. Best Juliana

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2011-01-04 Thread Andreas Kolbe
. A. --- On Tue, 4/1/11, Juliana da Costa José julianadacostaj...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Juliana da Costa José julianadacostaj...@googlemail.com Subject: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2011-01-04 Thread Erik Moeller
2011/1/4 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com: Thanks, interesting. Go to http://www.wiki4enterprise.org/index.php?title=Editoraction=edit That's just FCK, an existing MediaWiki extension. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FCKeditor_%28Official%29 Their own editor still appears to be under

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2011-01-01 Thread The Cunctator
I can promise you that the reason edit rates has gone down is not because of problems with wikitext. Though the cruft is a symptom. On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 6:50 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: [crossposted to foundation-l and wikitech-l] There has to be a vision though, of

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-29 Thread wiki-list
z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: David Gerard wrote: Our current markup is one of our biggest barriers to participation. [snip] * Tim doesn't scale. Most of our other technical people don't scale. *We have no resources and still run on almost nothing*. ($14m might sound like enough

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-29 Thread MZMcBride
wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: David Gerard wrote: Our current markup is one of our biggest barriers to participation. [snip] * Tim doesn't scale. Most of our other technical people don't scale. *We have no resources and still run on almost nothing*.

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-29 Thread David Gerard
On 29 December 2010 05:13, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: You inexplicably posted this to foundation-l, so let's look at this from an organizational/political standpoint. I deliberately posted it there because what I'm asking for is broad and difficult organisational commitment. And

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-29 Thread David Gerard
On 29 December 2010 11:03, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: The way I read this, you're almost suggesting that Wikia is a competitor to Wikipedia. Of all the sites on the Web, I think it's reasonable to say that Wikia is one of the few that inherently was not designed to be a competitor to

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-29 Thread wiki-list
z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: In comparison $14m does seem highly profligate. Our RD budget was £10m (approx $16) in 2009, spent almost entirely on software development, and = we have over 160 software engineers working on our

[Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread David Gerard
[crossposted to foundation-l and wikitech-l] There has to be a vision though, of something better. Maybe something that is an actual wiki, quick and easy, rather than the template coding hell Wikipedia's turned into. - something Fred Bauder just said on wikien-l. Our current markup is one of

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Benjamin Lees
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 6:50 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: So, the payoffs could be ridiculously huge: eight times the number of smart and knowledgeable people even being able to *fix typos* on material they care about. Jan Paul Posma's inline editor seems pretty promising. It's

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread church.of.emacs.ml
Hi David, from what I understand, there's a fundamental problem: There is no formal description of WikiSyntax. Its specification is: what the MediaWiki parser does. It seems that it's not very hard to write a WYSIWYG that covers 99% of all WikiSyntax, the problem is the remaining 1%. That being

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Victor Vasiliev
I have thought about WYSIWYG editor for Wikipedia and found it technically impossible. The main and key problem of WYSIWIG are templates. You have to understand that templates are not single element of Wikipedia syntax, they are integral part of page markup. You do not insert infobox template, you

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Fred Bauder
I have thought about WYSIWYG editor for Wikipedia and found it technically impossible. The main and key problem of WYSIWIG are templates. You have to understand that templates are not single element of Wikipedia syntax, they are integral part of page markup. You do not insert infobox

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread David Gerard
On 28 December 2010 16:06, Victor Vasiliev vasi...@gmail.com wrote: I have thought about WYSIWYG editor for Wikipedia and found it technically impossible. The main and key problem of WYSIWIG are templates. You have to understand that templates are not single element of Wikipedia syntax, they

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Victor Vasiliev
More thoughts. I always viewed wikitext vs. WYSIWYG dilemma as similar to LaTeX vs. Microsoft Word one. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Stephanie Daugherty
Not only is the current markup a barrier to participation, it's a barrier to development. As I argued on Wikien-l, starting over with a markup that can be syntacticly validated, preferably one that is XML based would reap huge rewards in the safety and effectiveness of automated tools - authors of

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Stephanie Daugherty
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:43 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 December 2010 16:06, Victor Vasiliev vasi...@gmail.com wrote: I have thought about WYSIWYG editor for Wikipedia and found it technically impossible. The main and key problem of WYSIWIG are templates. You have to

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Stephanie Daugherty
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: Stephanie writes: Layouts would be a new form of template, designed to apply as a block-level outline to an article, providing both a framework to build a particular type of article, and defining the formatting for that

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread David Gerard
On 28 December 2010 16:54, Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: Not only is the current markup a barrier to participation, it's a barrier to development. As I argued on Wikien-l, starting over with a markup that can be syntacticly validated, preferably one that is XML based would

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Stephanie Daugherty
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 6:43 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 December 2010 16:54, Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: Not only is the current markup a barrier to participation, it's a barrier to development. As I argued on Wikien-l, starting over with a markup

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread George Herbert
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:43 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 December 2010 16:54, Stephanie Daugherty sdaughe...@gmail.com wrote: Not only is the current markup a barrier to participation, it's a barrier to development. As I argued on Wikien-l, starting over with a markup that

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread Stephanie Daugherty
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 7:12 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.comwrote: That is true - We can't do away with Wikitext always been the intermediate conclusion (in between My god, we need to do something about this problem and This is hopeless, we give up again). Perhaps it's time to

Re: [Foundation-l] Big problem to solve: good WYSIWYG on WMF wikis

2010-12-28 Thread MZMcBride
David Gerard wrote: Our current markup is one of our biggest barriers to participation. [snip] * Tim doesn't scale. Most of our other technical people don't scale. *We have no resources and still run on almost nothing*. ($14m might sound like enough money to run a popular website, but