If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying
is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades
due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features
that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The
upside
Sims mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com ljsims...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription
To: Robert Lauriston mailto:rob...@lauriston.com rob...@lauriston.com
Cc: mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
Truth in Advertising Disclosure: I am biased. I am a reseller for a software
application that is sold mainly by subscription (WebWorks ePublisher). But I
purchase other software by subscription, and I prefer it.
But even WebWorks offers a perpetual license so that when you stop buying the
: Shmuel Wolfson shmue...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Cc: Paula Stern pa...@writepoint.com
If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to
keep
I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same
price as constant upgrades.
Actually, it's substantially more. I looked back and the last two CS
upgrades I bought were around $600. The product has an 18-month cycle
between upgrades, which means an average of $400 per year--
The law is the same here, but we have a generous Section 179 deduction
that most businesses can use to deduct 100% of all capital expenses each
year. I believe there are also some other temporary stimulus
provisions in place that allow other methods of deducting the full 100%.
The
Of Mike Wickham
Sent: 2013-05-22-Wednesday 12:35
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
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of Oklahoma City.
Scrooge
Graphic Communications
sgmli...@tds.net
- Original Message -
From: Shlomo Perets
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Just signed the petition
Indeed, yes.
Adobe have steadily reduced the value of their products in favour of increasing
marketing expenditure (e.g. the standardised UI) and PR, and feature bloat in
place of stability and quality software. Now, to increase value for
stockholders and to shore up the bottom line, they need
Cool! Signed!
Thanks for sharing.
-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe
I don't see why Adobe should care about a petition if subscription
revenues aren't lower than expected.
You don't like it, don't subscribe. They'll get the message.
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In the US, you can choose not to depreciate software, provided it
meets certain conditions and you haven't exceeded certain limits:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p946/ch02.html
For WebWorks, for me the subscription model penciled out as cheaper in
the long run. We have to update our browser
I believe this is the same in the UK.
-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of David Shaked
Sent: 21 May 2013 20:55
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software
No, the WebWorks subscription expires, just like a trial version.
It'll be another $800 (or whatever) in a year or the software will
stop working. A perpetual license is available, but it's considerably
more expensive.
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote:
Truth in
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote:
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View
of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765)
makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds,
TCS/FrameMaker could
Yes, please sign and pass it on:
http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model
Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133
On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote:
Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for
signing:
It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively
force this or that option them.
Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer
versions/upgrades were mediocre,
Here's mine:
I want the availability of my software to be
independent of my ability to pay for it. If I'm
having a cash-flow problem, the last thing I need
is to lose access to the tools that are required
to generate my income. I want it to be MY
decision as to when I update my software,
Done and FB'd.
Alan
On 22/05/13 1:09 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote:
Yes, please sign and pass it on:
http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model
Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133
--
AlphaByte
PO Box
@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Yes, please sign and pass it on:
http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man
datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model
Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133
...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Yes, please sign and pass it on:
http://www.change.org
An aspect I haven't seen mentioned in this thread: taxes
According to Israeli tax law, if I purchase a perpetual license for a
software application, it's a capital expense. I have to depreciate the
purchase over several years. I cannot deduct the full expense from this
year's tax return.
If I
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, *Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe’s
View of the Future,* (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some
excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker
could be next.
--Karen
___
You
@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View
of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points.
If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS
: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription
only
Message-ID:
CAN3Yy4DDAf=Z1XT8d0uW1nrBus1sBzsDrDknY+69weLOU=B4BQ@
mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic
features
: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:08 PM
To: Alan T Litchfield
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Forum
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
... What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its
relative low profit margins and share price. If only
] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:15 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote:
... you can't buy old versions of anything from
: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on
how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with
anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19
@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on
how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with
anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002.
On Mon
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic
features that FrameMaker users have been requesting for years?
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the
plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. How are book-level
variables, real templates, and
Or broken by FM9 and added back in as new features in later releases.
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alan T Litchfield
a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote:
Maxwell, I think you are missing the point.
His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the
statement I thought
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the
plug-ins that people are willing to pay for.
Good point.
Nadine
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: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Craig Ede wrote:
Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does
mean that you have access to a given software package you can count
At 08:00 +1200 14/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:
The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I
referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe
has gone direct to the market.
Ah, right - I understand. No, I don't remember anything
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Harro de Jong
harro.dej...@triviewgroup.com wrote:
The FM9 license states that ' you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may
have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the
upgrade or update.' IANAL, but to me that implies they
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote:
... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever ...
Maybe licensed resellers have to return all old software when a new
version is released, but the FrameMaker 10 license allows you to sell
your rights:
You
Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides,
not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come
up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote:
The purpose of business is
At 07:11 +1200 13/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:
These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You know,
retail channel?
Not shops as such: my understanding is that they sell Adobe products and also
training. I have dealt with two recently: Certitec and Phoenix Software.
Adobe introduces subscription-based licensing. So many of its users find it
an outstanding value that over time, most of them license software by
subscription. Adobe is rewarded for being innovative and Adobe serves its
customers better. Everybody wins.
Adobe ends its relationship with resellers
One benefit of the subscription model is that a company can focus 100%
on the current and next releases. That should significantly reduce
support costs, eliminates the cost of providing and distributing patch
releases for old versions, and reduces various other costs due to
reduced complexity.
On
That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially
true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for
its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more
rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off.
You're side of the mark about
Craig Ede wrote:
Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean
that
you have access to a given software package you can count on (and not some
changing version of it). Also, given that license, they cannot revoke your
ability of
use the software in that
madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
“That's how capitalism is supposed to work.”
I don't mean to nitpick, but is that capitalism or free market?
*steps back out of Dave's swing range*
=D
Nadine
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Now, Dave, that's not what Google told me when I did a 2 second search on
capitalism vs free market.
*figuratively checks to make sure the figurative pin is back in the figurative
grenade, then goes back to earning money to support her smart assery*
Nadine
Nadine -
Nadine, I certainly
The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_
to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. The purpose
of business is to _make_money_.
I'd go beyond the above a little bit more. :) In my blog on this topic (at this
link:
At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:
Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the
product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had
long since removed the reseller from the channel.
Without responding to the many other issues,
Hi Steve,
These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You
know, retail channel?
Thanks
Alan
On 12/05/13 11:09 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote:
Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the
product.
Yes, Steve, it's true.
There will be no CS7, just CC (Creative Cloud) apps.
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud.html
Single apps can be rented for $20/month, the entire suite is
$50/month. There are first year discounts for some current users.
CC requires that your computer get
@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
It's not SaaS, it's subscription. Yes, the name Creative Cloud (CC)
is confusing but it's not web-only applications. You download and
install them.
I like this model for a few reasons:
1. Cheaper for multi
] On Behalf Of Bill Swallow
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:22 PM
To: Steve Rickaby
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
It's not SaaS, it's subscription. Yes, the name Creative Cloud (CC)
is confusing but it's not web-only
On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote:
Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no
doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a
case for getting the disks or downloading the software.
Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose
This is why I'm uncomfortable with suites of software. Especially ones that are
so interdependent. I don't like having all my eggs in one basket.
Nadine
PS: Z, you seem to be good with numbers. How much are we going to need to raise
to create an FM competitor?
Almost everyone keeps ignoring
Funny how people put words between the lines...
On 12/05/13 12:08 PM, Steve Johnson wrote:
That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially
true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers
for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we
One problem that I foresee with 'Cloud' based solutions is that I have a
number of customers who are on private/military grade networks who have
*no* access to any services outside of their own network. This
configuration currently makes the FrameMaker license activation a right
pain ...
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your
sentiments/fears exactly, Steve.
Nadine
- Original Message -
From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM
Subject: OT:
Look at your license agreement...you dont own them now.
On May 9, 2013 12:42 PM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk
wrote:
I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in
future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow?
I do wonder
To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your
sentiments/fears exactly, Steve.
Nadine
- Original Message -
From: Steve Rickaby srick
@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your
sentiments/fears exactly, Steve.
Nadine
- Original Message -
From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk
To: framers
...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AM
To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your
sentiments/fears exactly, Steve
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AM
To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription
only
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share
-
From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 10:26 AM
To: John Posada
Cc: Alison Craig; FrameUsers List
Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I have to agree with John, and last year I would have totally bet the other way
Also, SaaS and subscription are different concepts.SaaS (like SalesForce, Jira, BaseCamp, Web(prettymuchanything) and many others) are web portals where the computing occurs across a network.Subscription means that you confirm your ability to run the software installed on (and processed on) your
It's not SaaS, it's subscription. Yes, the name Creative Cloud (CC)
is confusing but it's not web-only applications. You download and
install them.
I like this model for a few reasons:
1. Cheaper for multi-application users. Rather than buying one-off or
a suite at a time, you get access to all
At 14:22 -0400 9/5/13, Bill Swallow wrote:
I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different.
Yup, but as soon as you stop paying, you lose access to all your content.
That's a real big psychological barrier to bridge. I can see why a subscription
model would appeal to
Unfortunately, it's not a rumor. They made a mistake calling the
subscription CC, though. It should have been called FU. To paraphrase
someone else's quote on one of the Adobe forums, It's like paying for
air. Stop paying and everything stops.
I've always upgraded my CS every version, even
You don't lose your content. The files don't turn into pumpkins when you quit
the subscription. Yes, you can't use the native files, but if you didn't plan a
content migration knowing you'd be dropping the parent application, whose fault
is that?
As a consultant, the model is extremely
Agreed to most, except the issue of backward compatibility.
As it stands now, I can open old versions of files in old version of
software because I have the applications. I don't know how this will be
handled with the new software as it evolves. It will only take three
years for this to be a
As for cars, leasing has been a huge business for a couple of decades. There's
also a growing adoption of ride shares (pay for shared use of a car), and
rentals still are thriving.
Yes, but when they started leasing cars, they didn't remove the option
to buy them! I'm not against leasing
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