Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net wrote: What I find much more disturbing is WP being used to publish pictures of the photographer's wife. Even if he is very proud of her. It might be an unwanted precedent, first of people posting pictures of their children to show blond hair, tennis playing, whatever, second of people posting photos of their girl-friend at the first opportunity. From a women's sport perspective, we could really, really use some images featuring women's sport and encouraging people to post images of their friends and family to demonstrate certain things feels wholly appropriate. I've talked to at three different women's sport organisations and encouraged them to upload pictures to commons of their athletes. It would be useful for the roller derby article to have some videos or pictures clearly demonstrating certain skill sets for the rules section. That would also be useful in articles like [[rules of netball]] and [[Artistic gymnastics]]. [[Category:Women's sports in Australia]] has a whole slew of articles that could use people taking pictures. (And given some of the sports here, little clothing would be completely relevant.) This is probably an issue of content type needing illustrating. -- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
On 06/09/2011 11:10, Laura Hale wrote: From a women's sport perspective, we could really, really use some images featuring women's sport and encouraging people to post images of their friends and family to demonstrate certain things feels wholly appropriate. Ah yes, when there is a lack of images, certainly. I was rather thinking of already very documented topics, and a certain type of illiterate population equipped with silly smartphones, like : Article Baby : Picture of MY baby smiling, straight from my smartphone. He is so cute you're a Nazi if you refuse publication. Or if there was an abundance of photographs in the sports you mention, that would be : Gymnastics : MY daughter shining at the local championship. Not YOURS. You can see that on Panoramio already, like : Eiffel Tower : Picture of my girl-friend and her brother in front of the Eiffel Tower. Such pictures require a lot of editing from Panoramio volunteers, which is done for important places, but the more you chose unknown places the more you find silly pictures. It was so endemic that they decided there should be a review step before allowing pictures to appear from Panoramio to Google Earth. There are thousands of irrelevant or to poor quality photos uploaded everyday. In the case of Wikipedia, I think such authors would not even care to read the article. Maybe they will even have an iphone or android app to directly upload a smartphone picture to WP, without caring about what is written in the article. That's my Prophecy of the Smartphones of Doom. Can anybody confirm that there have already been invasions of authors contributing uniquely to post photos of their personal lives ? Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
Can anybody confirm that there have already been invasions of authors contributing uniquely to post photos of their personal lives ? Wikimedia Commons frequently gets image uploads of personal content on a daily basis. Commons is NOT a web host for personal images ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:What_Commons_is_not#Commons_is_not_your_personal_free_web_host). As someone who participates in deletion on Commons, I nominate plenty of family travel photos (sorry we don't need 10 photos of you, your wife and your baby in Paris) on a weekly basis. On another note, I do support the use of high quality smartphone photos, specifically high quality from the likes of iPhone (which honestly, the new iPhone 5 that will come out will have a camera as good as a standard digital camera did last year). I've actually tossed around the idea of doing a Wiki Takes event that focuses on iPhoneography, or at least an event that releases all images created CC-BY-A. If I do come across the rare crappy cell phone photo (it is indeed rare), I tag it low quality (if it is) and if we have better images of that subject of better quality, I will nominate it for deletion. Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for the Wikimedia Foundationhttp://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC and the lack of junk in articles
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net wrote: very casual instead. Might be my European education, I don't know. Possibly :) I consider myself a very sex-positive person, but, I also know when political correctness and forcing people to view nudity is inappropriate. In this matter, to me, it's forcing people to view a really medicore photo of a woman nude and pregnant and making the article something people can't view at work. Also, at least in the US Google search, you have to go sometime before you find any images of naked women who are pregnant. There are plenty of tasteful photos of women clothed, or women clothed with their belly showing. I never even looked at the pregnancy article until it was brought to my attention and i was like Whoa, okay...whoa. But, I'm a [[childless]] person by choice, and the whole concept of pregnancy makes me anxious ;-) I was trying to think of an example of something that might be relevant to men. I looked at the [[vasectomy]] article and was happy to see that there was a medical drawing of a groin, and not someone's privates at the first image (aguug), but, you scroll down a bit and there it is, but, I expected it. [[Castration]] is the same, actually, I'm more shocked by this one because there IS NOT a photo of a castrated man. What the hell is that about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration We also have a ton of photos (gahhh!!!) of castrated guys. Who wants to spend time adding a photo to the castration article? Anyone? ;) We have artwork, but not junk. The last conversation that took place about this was in 2006, where a user cried goat.se: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Castration#pictures.3F And people getting grossed out by a horse castration (ughh). I think that for medical articles, all the relevant body parts must be fully exposed. And believe me I have seen much worse than a healthy pregnant woman, because i do website editing for a faculty of medicine. Well we need a photo on the castration page. But, you also work in an environment where nude medical images are acceptable. Many of us aren't in that environment :) Many of us also like surprises, but not naked surprises (outside of perhaps your love life). Sarah -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for the Wikimedia Foundationhttp://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC and the lack of junk in articles
Sarah: I was trying to think of an example of something that might be relevant to men. I looked at the [[vasectomy]] article and was happy to see that there was a medical drawing of a groin, and not someone's privates at the first image (aguug), but, you scroll down a bit and there it is, but, I expected it. Myself: There actually has been sort of a precedent with a male-relevant article. I'm sure others with long wiki teeth will remember it once they see the link, but for those who don't, it's at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Semen/Archive_3#Survey_to_gain_consensus_to_remove_an_image and you can scroll up and down at your leisure, and follow the links to the controversial image. Daniel Case ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
I have to say that viewing pregnancy as a medical article seems to be a rather male point of view :) I also find it telling that maternity clothing isn't even mentioned in the article (but I guess that makes sense if pregnant women don't wear clothes). Ryan Kaldari On 9/6/11 12:04 AM, Arnaud HERVE wrote: Intuitively I was not shocked by the nude pregnant woman. I found it very casual instead. Might be my European education, I don't know. I think that for medical articles, all the relevant body parts must be fully exposed. And believe me I have seen much worse than a healthy pregnant woman, because i do website editing for a faculty of medicine. In that case the part to be expose would be the whole swell of the belly, from pelvis to thorax. Including the breasts is ok to me. Showing that part exclusively would not only be more medically relevant (because thighs and neck are not relevant here), it would also make the person non identifiable. The clothed photograph seems to me more improper than the nude one for a medical article. If it is medical, then the body part must be exposed without clothes. Even if it might sound surprising, I also disagree all photographs showings hands on belly, nude or clothed. I acknowledge that it shows the mother's care, but for medical purpose it is the belly alone that must be shown. What I find much more disturbing is WP being used to publish pictures of the photographer's wife. Even if he is very proud of her. It might be an unwanted precedent, first of people posting pictures of their children to show blond hair, tennis playing, whatever, second of people posting photos of their girl-friend at the first opportunity. That might against the interests of female participation. Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 20:08, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 19:27, carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: Lots of us old hippie women are exhibitionists and I could advertise and get a few of us to pose. Then the young guys would have to discuss whether the 19 year old or 60 year old breast/nude/buttock etc. is more appropriate for an article. Hope that also engenders a good laugh Carol in dc It's actually a serious point, though. It would be great to provide images for those articles that don't portray women the way certain men want to see them portrayed. I recall the Body Shop did that a couple of decades ago -- started using images of women that fell outside the usual range that tended to be objectified (older, not thin, etc). They produced some very good ads as a result. The difficulty for us would be in finding those images, then in maintaining them on the pages. Sarah The concept of being objectified needs to be explained to the community and incorporated into our style guides. This has to make sense rather than being misunderstood. Fred It's the kind of idea that people would become hostile towards, because accepting how extensive the objectification is is part of feminist consciousness. I see text and images on Wikipedia that are very clear instances of it (in my view), but over the years I've learned to keep my mouth shut about it. Sarah ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
If someone wants to beat me to the punch, go for it. Hmmm, I know some feminist photographers In fact, a few of us probably do. What better consciousness raiser than a fact (or photo) on the ground that they then have to deal with?? On 9/6/2011 9:51 PM, Sarah wrote: On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 19:27,carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote: Lots of us old hippie women are exhibitionists and I could advertise and get a few of us to pose. Then the young guys would have to discuss whether the 19 year old or 60 year old breast/nude/buttock etc. is more appropriate for an article. Hope that also engenders a good laugh Carol in dc It's actually a serious point, though. It would be great to provide images for those articles that don't portray women the way certain men want to see them portrayed. I recall the Body Shop did that a couple of decades ago -- started using images of women that fell outside the usual range that tended to be objectified (older, not thin, etc). They produced some very good ads as a result. The difficulty for us would be in finding those images, then in maintaining them on the pages. Sarah ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
It's actually a serious point, though. It would be great to provide images for those articles that don't portray women the way certain men want to see them portrayed. I recall the Body Shop did that a couple of decades ago -- started using images of women that fell outside the usual range that tended to be objectified (older, not thin, etc). They produced some very good ads as a result. The difficulty for us would be in finding those images, then in maintaining them on the pages. Do we have an article on that women's club somewhere in England that, one year, put out their annual calendar showing them going about their regular club activities (gardening, tea, etc.) nude? IIRC, they were all in their fifties and sixties at the time, and the calendar sold quite well. I wish I could remember more details. Daniel Case ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Pregnancy article lead-image RFC
On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 01:33, Daniel and Elizabeth Case danc...@frontiernet.net wrote: Do we have an article on that women's club somewhere in England that, one year, put out their annual calendar showing them going about their regular club activities (gardening, tea, etc.) nude? IIRC, they were all in their fifties and sixties at the time, and the calendar sold quite well. I wish I could remember more details. Here's what I found, not sure if it's what you had in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_Girls#Inspiration http://leukaemialymphomaresearch.org.uk/get-involved/calendar-girls/calendar-girls-story -Jeremy ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
