On 25.02.2020 23:37, Samuel Thibault wrote:
I never asked for a "crown".
FWIW, I didn't mean to imply any character fault.
Just saying that it might not be the way to reach the stated goals. Not
in the context of the Social Contract, but in the context of the Joint
Statement.
On 2020-02-25 06:22, Andreas Enge wrote:
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 08:56:24AM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
The text circulated is not a text by or for the GNU project, so this
is indeed not the best place for discussion of it
Quite on the contrary, it is a text by members of the GNU Project
John Darrington, le mar. 25 févr. 2020 07:04:20 -0500, a ecrit:
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 08:50:51AM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Could people actually *READ* the text
>
> Why? It is nothing to do with GNU. So why should any subscribers to
> this list spend any time on it at all?
I
Dmitry Gutov, le mar. 25 févr. 2020 12:24:25 +0200, a ecrit:
> On 25.02.2020 1:55, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>
> > > That is a problem. But one that wouldn't be solved simply by the
> > > leadership's say-so. GNU is usually all volunteers, and if existing
> > > developers don't accept the new
Le mardi 25 février 2020, 15:22:52 CET Andreas Enge a écrit :
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 08:56:24AM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> > The text circulated is not a text by or for the GNU project, so this
> > is indeed not the best place for discussion of it
>
> Quite on the contrary, it is a text
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 08:56:24AM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> The text circulated is not a text by or for the GNU project, so this
> is indeed not the best place for discussion of it
Quite on the contrary, it is a text by members of the GNU Project for the
GNU Project.
And
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 08:56:24AM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> The text circulated is not a text by or for the GNU project, so this
> is indeed not the best place for discussion of it
Quite on the contrary, it is a text by members of the GNU Project for the
GNU Project.
> seeing that those
The text circulated is not a text by or for the GNU project, so this
is indeed not the best place for discussion of it, seeing that those
wanting to discuss the text refuse to discuss it here, it might just
as well be worth moving any such discussions to their web site.
In either case, please
Le mardi 25 février 2020, 09:49:02 CET Dmitry Gutov a écrit :
> On 25.02.2020 3:58, Alexandre François Garreau wrote:
> >> Regarding punishing repeat offenders anyway, as we've seen just
> >> recently, you can't censor a determined individual on a public
> >> mailing
> >> list anyway. Limit their
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 07:04:20AM -0500, John Darrington wrote:
> Why? It is nothing to do with GNU. So why should any subscribers to
> this list spend any time on it at all?
So what do you think are the requirements for having "to do with GNU"?
Since apparently you claim that GNU
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 08:50:51AM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>
> Could people actually *READ* the text
>
Why? It is nothing to do with GNU. So why should any subscribers to
this list spend any time on it at all?
My understanding is that the people who are promoting it have thier
own
On 25.02.2020 1:55, Samuel Thibault wrote:
That is a problem. But one that wouldn't be solved simply by the
leadership's say-so. GNU is usually all volunteers, and if existing
developers don't accept the new project management platform, they won't use
it.
As I mentioned in another mail, I am
On 25.02.2020 3:58, Alexandre François Garreau wrote:
Regarding punishing repeat offenders anyway, as we've seen just
recently, you can't censor a determined individual on a public mailing
list anyway. Limit their audience, sure, but banning them outright seems
impossible. And I can hardly see
> I am not clear what
It's explained down below in the text.
And I read it, it still does not explain it clearly to me or its
implications or how it is something the GNU project is about.
Truncating my message and then dismissing everything else seems
strange, why not elaborate on the
Alfred M. Szmidt, le mar. 25 févr. 2020 03:07:04 -0500, a ecrit:
> I am not clear what
It's explained down below in the text.
Samuel
The text also says:
â
the GNU Project, which creates and distributes a software system that
respects users' freedoms
â
There is a slightly confusion here, and implication that isn't the
intent of the GNU project, I think.
Namley, "distribute a software system that respects
Alexandre François Garreau, le mar. 25 févr. 2020 03:10:35 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le mardi 25 février 2020, 00:55:09 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Did you really read what was actually written on
> > https://wiki.gnu.tools/gnu:social-contract ?
> > It does not talk about the values that
Le mardi 25 février 2020, 00:55:09 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> As I mentioned in another mail, I am not talking about the software
> running the platform, but the community around the platform. It's the
> contact they get from the community living on a given platform, which
> makes the
> Regarding punishing repeat offenders anyway, as we've seen just
> recently, you can't censor a determined individual on a public mailing
> list anyway. Limit their audience, sure, but banning them outright seems
> impossible. And I can hardly see the whole GNU project migrating off
> mailing
Dmitry Gutov, le mar. 25 févr. 2020 01:44:02 +0200, a ecrit:
> On 20.02.2020 15:45, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>
> > > > The activity by itself, yes, but the choice of where to start a new
> > > > project, or starting contributing an existing project, leadership does
> > > > have a lot of importance.
On 20.02.2020 15:45, Samuel Thibault wrote:
The activity by itself, yes, but the choice of where to start a new
project, or starting contributing an existing project, leadership does
have a lot of importance.
What kind of choice? Contributors come and go, largely depending on their
own needs
On 2/21/20 3:07 AM, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> I don’t think so, but I’d rather emphasize “symbiosis†with some
> projects than disagreements with others.
That is too bad because the goal of GNU is to seperate GNU from other
projects that don't maining the Four Freedoms
Ruben
--
So many
On 2/20/20 3:55 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely unknown
> to free software enthousiasts.
Don't worry about that. It is not your concern an a package maintainer
and it's not even a remote possiblity.
--
So many immigrant groups have
Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 22:55:37 CET Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) a
écrit :
> On 2020-02-20 11:42, Andreas R. wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 02:45:02PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> >> > On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative might
> >> > make GNU more exclusionary
Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 18:39:52 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alfred M. Szmidt, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 12:32:16 -0500, a ecrit:
> >> > Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely
> >> > unknown
> >> > to free software enthousiasts. As in, when you'd ask people
> >
Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 05:08:13 CET DJ Delorie a écrit :
> Jean Louis writes:
> > * DJ Delorie [2020-02-19 21:01]:
> >> "Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
> >> > On 2020-02-17 12:37, Andy Wingo wrote:
> >> >> Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its
Le vendredi 21 février 2020, 22:57:55 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 21 févr. 2020 11:59:42 +0100, a
ecrit:
> > Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 18:39:52 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > > I'm not saying that GNU will necessarily stop growing and decline.
> > > What
I’ve another idea of measurement:
What software is for?
Is software first of all for developers, or users?
For people who write it, or people who run it?
I mean, software is made to be used right? not only read (and actually,
continuously changing software also is an issue for those who read,
Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 14:45:02 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Dmitry Gutov, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 15:31:17 +0200, a ecrit:
> > On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative might make
> > GNU more exclusionary because of the extra conditions on what it
> > takes to be a part of
Eli Zaretskii writes:
> No one, not even the above quote, said they have "no impact" in
> general.
I didn't say that. I said you could argue that. It's a point to
consider and discuss, that's all. Sometimes an extreme viewpoint makes
discussion clearer, and the results can be applied to the
Alexandre François Garreau, le dim. 23 févr. 2020 01:08:25 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 00:02:27 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > I see my students not think that much when they put software on github,
> > if I don't discuss with them. When you create a repository on github,
> >
Le dimanche 23 février 2020, 00:02:27 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 23:32:13 +0100, a
ecrit:
> > giving a link to GNU coding standards (actually even packaged into
> > debian), for instance, would be pretty reasonable mentoring.
>
> Sure (but
On 23.02.2020 0:49, Alexandre François Garreau wrote:
But what will rather happen is that the new generation will just rewrite
another program, possibly without caring about making it free software.
So what? it still can be run. If people value freedom, they should prefer
the free one, to
Le samedi 22 février 2020, 22:50:03 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 22:43:36 +0100, a
ecrit:
> > Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:10:33 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > > Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 19:21:18 +0100, a
ecrit:
>
Alexandre François Garreau, le dim. 23 févr. 2020 00:00:11 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le samedi 22 février 2020, 22:32:24 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Jean Louis, le dim. 23 févr. 2020 00:04:46 +0300, a ecrit:
> > > GNU project is about making free operating system, thus it is there,
> > > as long as
Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 23:49:30 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:49:13 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 12:22:55 -0800, a
> ecrit:
> > > On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > Really, not
Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 23:32:13 +0100, a ecrit:
> giving a link to GNU coding standards (actually even packaged into
> debian), for instance, would be pretty reasonable mentoring.
Sure (but also telling which piece is questioned in the contribution,
e.g. "there are
Le samedi 22 février 2020, 22:32:24 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Jean Louis, le dim. 23 févr. 2020 00:04:46 +0300, a ecrit:
> > GNU project is about making free operating system, thus it is there,
> > as long as it is compatible with computers, you may carry it on in the
> > future life.
>
>
Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:49:13 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 12:22:55 -0800, a
ecrit:
> > On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Really, not including the next generations in a project is running
> > > the
> > > risk of the
Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:43:00 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 10:22:55 -0800, a
ecrit:
> > On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Yes. Which doesn't mean they should immediately be given commit
> > > power
> > > etc. But at
Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 22:46:11 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:15:19 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 13:50:49 +0100, a
> ecrit:
> > > Le vendredi 21 février 2020, 22:57:55 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 22:43:36 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:10:33 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 19:21:18 +0100, a
> ecrit:
> > > I recall some of them (likely one of those you’re thinking about is
Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:15:19 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 13:50:49 +0100, a
ecrit:
> > Le vendredi 21 février 2020, 22:57:55 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > > Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 21 févr. 2020 11:59:42 +0100, a
> >
> >
* Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss) <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> [2020-02-23 00:30]:
> On 2020-02-22 12:50, Jean Louis wrote:
> > * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 23:45]:
> > > Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 10:22:55
> > > -0800, a ecrit:
> > > If nobody is there to hold their
Le samedi 22 février 2020, 21:10:33 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 19:21:18 +0100, a
ecrit:
> > I recall some of them (likely one of those you’re thinking about is
> > the
> > same as I),
>
> Possibly.
FDN right?
> > > > you prefer to
* Samuel Thibault [2020-02-23 00:35]:
> > GNU project is about making free operating system, thus it is there,
> > as long as it is compatible with computers, you may carry it on in the
> > future life.
>
> Sure. But how to make sure it will outlive me?
>
> Samuel
Maybe you just think of GNU
Jean Louis, le dim. 23 févr. 2020 00:04:46 +0300, a ecrit:
> Give me a break.
I explained what I meant to mean. I don't see what else you would want.
> > > > I'm here speaking as an oldie, actually. An oldie who had to ask himself
> > > > that very question for some projects already. I have
Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 13:17:06 -0800, a ecrit:
> On 2020-02-22 12:43, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 10:22:55 -0800, a
> > ecrit:
> > > But does it? If inexperienced people are a protected class, then it
> > >
On 2020-02-22 12:43, Samuel Thibault wrote:
Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 10:22:55 -0800, a
ecrit:
But does it? If inexperienced people are a protected class, then it
doesn't matter how the blocking is done. The blocking violates the
social
contract and that's that.
* Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 23:58]:
> Jean Louis, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 23:43:55 +0300, a ecrit:
> > * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 23:22]:
> > > Jean Louis, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 18:02:42 +0300, a ecrit:
> > > > * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 12:51]:
> > > > > Really, not including the next
Jean Louis, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 23:43:55 +0300, a ecrit:
> * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 23:22]:
> > Jean Louis, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 18:02:42 +0300, a ecrit:
> > > * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 12:51]:
> > > > Really, not including the next generations in a project is running the
> > > >
Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 12:22:55 -0800, a ecrit:
> On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Really, not including the next generations in a project is running the
> > risk of the project just dying with its leaders.
>
> Project "liveness" is not the ultimate
* Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 23:45]:
> Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 10:22:55 -0800, a ecrit:
> > On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Yes. Which doesn't mean they should immediately be given commit power
> > > etc. But at the very least be helped to improve
* Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 23:22]:
> Jean Louis, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 18:02:42 +0300, a ecrit:
> > * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 12:51]:
> > > Really, not including the next generations in a project is running the
> > > risk of the project just dying with its leaders.
> >
> > I can see
Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le sam. 22 févr. 2020 10:22:55 -0800, a ecrit:
> On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Yes. Which doesn't mean they should immediately be given commit power
> > etc. But at the very least be helped to improve and acquire experience.
> I strongly
On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
Really, not including the next generations in a project is running the
risk of the project just dying with its leaders.
Project "liveness" is not the ultimate value. If nobody is found who
will maintain it the way it ought to be, then let it die.
If
Jean Louis, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 18:02:42 +0300, a ecrit:
> * Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 12:51]:
> > Really, not including the next generations in a project is running the
> > risk of the project just dying with its leaders.
>
> I can see great bunch of disrespect there.
>
> I am born in
Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 13:50:49 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le vendredi 21 février 2020, 22:57:55 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 21 févr. 2020 11:59:42 +0100, a
> ecrit:
> > > Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 18:39:52 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
Alexandre François Garreau, le sam. 22 févr. 2020 19:21:18 +0100, a ecrit:
> I recall some of them (likely one of those you’re thinking about is the
> same as I),
Possibly.
> > > you prefer to “aknowledge” this “will have to be done at some
> > > point”. Is if there wasn’t any middle ground
On 2020-02-22 01:50, Samuel Thibault wrote:
Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 13:55:37 -0800, a
ecrit:
On 2020-02-20 11:42, Andreas R. wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 02:45:02PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative
Le vendredi 21 février 2020, 22:55:04 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 21 févr. 2020 12:39:37 +0100, a
ecrit:
> > It is defeatist because it departs from the basic idea you’ll *have*
> > to
> > exclude someone at some point. No solution will ever be found.
>
>
> From: DJ Delorie
> Cc: a...@gnu.org, gnu-misc-discuss@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:34:31 -0500
>
> > The guiding principles of what it takes to be a maintainer of a GNU
> > project are communicated to each one of us when he or she is
> > appointed. Those principles have very important
* Samuel Thibault [2020-02-22 12:51]:
> Really, not including the next generations in a project is running the
> risk of the project just dying with its leaders.
I can see great bunch of disrespect there.
I am born in place where our parents teach us good manners.
Jean
Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss), le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 13:55:37 -0800, a ecrit:
> On 2020-02-20 11:42, Andreas R. wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 02:45:02PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative might make
> > > > GNU
> > > > more
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 09:09:47PM +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
> As I see it, the GNU Social Contract
> contains only trivialities in the sense that it summarises values of the
> GNU project that are already there, and as such it is far from extremist.
It could have contained only elements that
> From: DJ Delorie
> Cc: gnu-misc-discuss@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:10:49 -0500
>
> a...@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes:
> > That speaks more to the fact that the GNU project leadership has no
> > impact on project adaptation, or contributor activity. But rather it
> > is a
a...@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes:
> That speaks more to the fact that the GNU project leadership has no
> impact on project adaptation, or contributor activity. But rather it
> is a individual effort by each project maintainer.
One could argue that this indicates that what you term "GNU
On 2020-02-20 10:06, a...@gnu.org wrote:
I'm not saying that GNU will necessarily stop growing and decline. What
I'm afraid is that it might just become insignificant compared to
others, and thus its voice for the 4 freedoms become less and less
heard.
I think everyone would agree that
On 2020-02-20 11:42, Andreas R. wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 02:45:02PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative might make GNU
> more exclusionary because of the extra conditions on what it takes to be a
> part of it.
At some point you have
Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 21 févr. 2020 11:59:42 +0100, a ecrit:
> Le jeudi 20 février 2020, 18:39:52 CET Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> > Alfred M. Szmidt, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 12:32:16 -0500, a ecrit:
> > > How does that have to do with the overall project leadership, which
> > > hasn't
Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 21 févr. 2020 12:39:37 +0100, a ecrit:
> It is defeatist because it departs from the basic idea you’ll *have* to
> exclude someone at some point. No solution will ever be found.
Yes. Been there a few times, had to resort to it, I remember a case
where it was
Hello John,
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:54:19PM -0500, John Darrington wrote:
> Therefore I'm extremely dissapointed that recently a small group of
> GNU maintainers has started spreading nagative and misleading propaganda
> about others within GNU
this is not founded in any argument, but seems
On 21.02.2020 10:07, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
I don’t think so, but I’d rather emphasize “symbiosis” with some
projects than disagreements with others.
Oh well. So I'm yet to witness a practical disagreement that you have
with RMS.
Dmitry Gutov skribis:
> On 20.02.2020 15:12, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> As I see it, the point of the Social Contract you’re referring to is a
>> commitment to work hand in hand with our natural allies. These could be
>> projects that build software the GNU system or GNU applications rely on,
>>
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 02:45:02PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > On the flip side, an argument is made that your initiative might make GNU
> > more exclusionary because of the extra conditions on what it takes to be a
> > part of it.
>
> At some point you have to exclude some people in order
I'm not saying that GNU will necessarily stop growing and decline. What
I'm afraid is that it might just become insignificant compared to
others, and thus its voice for the 4 freedoms become less and less
heard.
I think everyone would agree that we do not want the four freedoms to
Alfred M. Szmidt, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 12:32:16 -0500, a ecrit:
>> > Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely unknown
>> > to free software enthousiasts. As in, when you'd ask people what free
>> > software is about, they would answer "ah, yes, the stuff on github,
Alfred M. Szmidt, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 12:32:15 -0500, a ecrit:
> I would suggest everyone to read the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines
> as for how we wish to communicate within the GNU project. Calling
> people names, be it calling them toxic or any other name is unkind
> even if one might
> > Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely unknown
> > to free software enthousiasts. As in, when you'd ask people what free
> > software is about, they would answer "ah, yes, the stuff on github,
> > right".
>
> Okay, sure. But going back to Eli's point,
I would suggest everyone to read the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines
as for how we wish to communicate within the GNU project. Calling
people names, be it calling them toxic or any other name is unkind
even if one might think it is justified..
That seems to be the ground of what some people
Dmitry Gutov, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 15:31:17 +0200, a ecrit:
> On 20.02.2020 14:41, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > Okay, sure. But going back to Eli's point, the development activity of
> > > individual projects is determined by individual project's members, and is
> > > rarely affected by the
Dmitry Gutov, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 12:26:38 +0200, a ecrit:
> On 20.02.2020 10:55, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely unknown
> > to free software enthousiasts. As in, when you'd ask people what free
> > software is about, they would answer
Dmitry Gutov, le jeu. 20 févr. 2020 10:43:47 +0200, a ecrit:
> On 20.02.2020 6:08, DJ Delorie wrote:
> > There are a lot of projects that are free software but not GNU. If
> > people choose to work on those projects instead of GNU, GNU loses, even
> > if free software wins.
>
> Well, this is
On 20.02.2020 15:12, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
As I see it, the point of the Social Contract you’re referring to is a
commitment to work hand in hand with our natural allies. These could be
projects that build software the GNU system or GNU applications rely on,
or it could be projects fighting
On 20.02.2020 14:41, Samuel Thibault wrote:
Okay, sure. But going back to Eli's point, the development activity of
individual projects is determined by individual project's members, and is
rarely affected by the actions of the leadership.
The activity by itself, yes, but the choice of where
Hi,
Dmitry Gutov skribis:
> I figured your "collaborates with the broader free software community"
> item was about how non-GNU free software are a "good thing" still
> (e.g. LLVM has the right to exist, and we should interface with it
> properly as well), but apparently not.
As I see it, the
On 20.02.2020 10:55, Samuel Thibault wrote:
I believe you are misinterpreting his words.
One reason for that is I'm trying to find some technical goals you guys
have , thinking back to older discussions.
Our concern is that at some point GNU may be just completely unknown
to free software
On 20.02.2020 6:08, DJ Delorie wrote:
There are a lot of projects that are free software but not GNU. If
people choose to work on those projects instead of GNU, GNU loses, even
if free software wins.
Well, this is disappointing.
I figured your "collaborates with the broader free software
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 12:25:33PM -0500, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
>Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its packages
>stopped developing? Dead, right?
>
> Software that can be run, studied, redistributed, and modified is in a
> state that is strarkly different than matter that
I'm going to skip over this much of this interesting and valid
discussion on metrics and data analysis, which is likely useful
if it was in a different context, and get to the more criticle issues
> Suppose the current leadership of GNU would respond to your criticism
> by showing a schedule full
Jean Louis writes:
> * DJ Delorie [2020-02-19 21:01]:
>>
>> "Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
>> > On 2020-02-17 12:37, Andy Wingo wrote:
>> >> Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its packages stopped
>> >> developing? Dead, right?
>> >
>> > The
* DJ Delorie [2020-02-19 21:01]:
>
> "Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
> > On 2020-02-17 12:37, Andy Wingo wrote:
> >> Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its packages stopped
> >> developing? Dead, right?
> >
> > The immediate effect would become
"Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)" <936-846-2...@kylheku.com> writes:
> On 2020-02-17 12:37, Andy Wingo wrote:
>> Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its packages stopped
>> developing? Dead, right?
>
> The immediate effect would become more of a stable base for the vast
> amount of
On 2020-02-17 12:37, Andy Wingo wrote:
Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its packages stopped
developing? Dead, right?
The immediate effect would become more of a stable base for the vast
amount of material that depends on it.
Nothing that depends on GNU Anything would
Hello,
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 06:30:22PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > And then we have Guile, whose development pace leaves a lot to be
> > > desired, if we really want it to become the GNU standard extension
> > > languages. Strangely, the Guile developers, including Andy Wingo,
> > >
Thought experiment: what would GNU be if all of its packages
stopped developing? Dead, right?
Software that can be run, studied, redistributed, and modified is in a
state that is strarkly different than matter that is decaying in an
irreversiable chemical reaction -- i.e. death.
So lets
> From: Andy Wingo
> Cc: gnu-misc-discuss@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:37:55 +0100
>
> I agree also! This sort of activity is natural in a project that
> engages in self-reflection. If a project has leadership, then naturally
> leadership would be conducting the exercise.
Do you
Hello Eli :)
On Wed 12 Feb 2020 19:13, Eli Zaretskii writes:
>> From: DJ Delorie
>> Are we DONE producing that operating system? No? If not, why not?
>> Aren't all those developers who finished their packages working on
>> other, new packages? Why aren't the package counts continuing to
>>
* Mark Wielaard [2020-02-14 04:49]:
> Two random observations for packages that I happened to look at:
>
> - In the manually-collected-release-dates you include eprints,
> but it isn't really clear that is still
> a GNU package. https://www.gnu.org/software/eprints/ just
> redirects to
Hi Andy,
On Mon, 2020-02-10 at 20:14 +0100, Andy Wingo wrote:
> Recently I put dozens of hours into
> analyzing past GNU releases. The result is here:
>
> https://wingolog.org/archives/2020/02/09/state-of-the-gnunion-2020
Thanks for that and for publishing the raw data too. The data itself
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