Re: Some Assistance Please

2017-05-24 Thread Adrien Monteleone 

> On May 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Geert Janssens  
> wrote:
> 
> On woensdag 24 mei 2017 17:16:41 CEST Derek Atkins wrote:
>> Michael Ferrara  writes:
>>>There's no good way to translate from Wiki to PDF
>>> 
>>> Really? PDF can handle hard links within a document. Reference books with
>> 
>> Yes, really.  And it's more than just PDF.  We currently build the docs
>> into HTML, PDF, Mobi, and at least one other format.  There are no tools
>> that take wiki content and do that *and* make the results look good.
>> This is why we chose DocBook, and this is why we've stuck with it.
>> 
> The other formats:
> Windows HtmlHelp
> On linux the docboook files are used directly by yelp
> Both serve for for tight integration of our help and guide into the native 
> platforms.
> 
>> We've been down this road before.  I have no reason to believe that
>> today's tools do this any better than the tools last time we went down
>> this path of exploration.
> 
> Yes we never found a suitable replacement in the past. I'd love to be proven 
> wrong over this one though. If someone can show us new system that suits all 
> our requirements and is easier to use by non-developer volunteer that are 
> willing to help out, I'm all ears.
> 
> Geert

Geert,

If the opposite were possible, would that meet the needs?

If using the wiki as the collaboration platform opened up documentation editing 
to non-developer types but still gave you the desired formats, is that what you 
are looking for or are there other needs?

Looking over mediawiki.org, there are methods using our own render server (or a 
public one if so desired) and extension plugins to export a variety of formats 
including XHTML, PDF, ePUB, ZIM, ODF, and yes, DocBook XML. There’s also the 
option of using PediaPress for people to order a physical bound copy if they so 
desire.

The only one presently offered I don’t see included as an extension is MOBI 
though there are many tools to take any of those other formats to MOBI if 
really needed. I would think it not too difficult to script the conversion of a 
resulting ePUB into MOBI. Clicking the MOBI download link could take a trip 
through ePUB and then the ePub2Mobi conversion to serve the desired file. Is 
there still a significant case for .mobi files due to .mobi only readers? Is 
there a current comparison of download stats from gnucash.org?

An additional advantage of using the wiki as the working and publishing 
platform is that formats are generated on-demand by the render server. Thus any 
time someone downloads a copy of the documentation it will always be the most 
up to date, rather than a milestone-released static version. If that is not 
desired I suppose some method of drafts vs. published approved pages would 
suffice, but that will more than likely be handled by control of editing 
credentials.

The render server can also be configured to ‘publish’ specific collections of 
articles so that the wiki could contain the entirety of the help, tutorial and 
concepts guide, developer documentation, et cetera, and then particular links 
will give you a single file of any one of those. So if someone wanted a printed 
copy of the help and a pdf of the tutorial and concepts guide, they could get 
each separately all from the wiki and all with the most current approved edits.

Just a thought.

-Adrien

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Re: Some Assistance Please

2017-05-24 Thread Geert Janssens 
On woensdag 24 mei 2017 17:16:41 CEST Derek Atkins wrote:
> Michael Ferrara  writes:
> > There's no good way to translate from Wiki to PDF
> > 
> > Really? PDF can handle hard links within a document. Reference books with
> 
> Yes, really.  And it's more than just PDF.  We currently build the docs
> into HTML, PDF, Mobi, and at least one other format.  There are no tools
> that take wiki content and do that *and* make the results look good.
> This is why we chose DocBook, and this is why we've stuck with it.
> 
The other formats:
Windows HtmlHelp
On linux the docboook files are used directly by yelp
Both serve for for tight integration of our help and guide into the native 
platforms.

> We've been down this road before.  I have no reason to believe that
> today's tools do this any better than the tools last time we went down
> this path of exploration.

Yes we never found a suitable replacement in the past. I'd love to be proven 
wrong over this one though. If someone can show us new system that suits all 
our requirements and is easier to use by non-developer volunteer that are 
willing to help out, I'm all ears.

Geert
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Re: Some Assistance Please

2017-05-24 Thread Derek Atkins 
Adrien Monteleone  writes:

> On that note, I already knew about html2pdf for *nix, but even better
> - there’s this: Extension:Pdf_Export on the mediawiki site.

Docs are in HTML, PDF, Mobi, and I believe one more format.  There's no
tool that I'm aware of that will take wiki content and do that.

> -Adrien

-derek
-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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Re: Some Assistance Please

2017-05-24 Thread Derek Atkins 
Adrien Monteleone  writes:

> I’m certainly no expert on the matter and I have no beef with the GIT
> process for documentation, but that seems odd at first glance since
> wikis are markdown inside HTML which is a subset of XML which the doc
> procedures turn into PDF. Or did I misunderstand something?

Markdown/Wiki != DocBook.

We've gone down this route before.  It didn't work last time.  I see no
reason to believe the tools have changed to allow it to work now.

> -Adrien

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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Re: Some Assistance Please

2017-05-24 Thread Derek Atkins 
Adonay Felipe Nogueira  writes:

> Personally, I think this would be mostly solved by switching to TeXInfo,
> or to Org Mode. The latter also supports TeXInfo publication.

What's wrong with Docbook?

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
   Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
   URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
   warl...@mit.eduPGP key available
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