Re: [GNC-dev] Mouse usage in Gnucash
On October 12, 2019, at 3:45 AM, John Ralls wrote: > >> On Oct 10, 2019, at 10:26 PM, David Cousens wrote: >> >> Do we by any chance have some sort of standard description of mouse usage in >> GNuCash on the various OS. >> >> I am updating documentation. Docbooks has tags for description of mouse >> operations. With configurable mouses for LH or RH operation terms like Left >> Click and Right Click start to become ambiguous. DocBooks has tags for >> . In a review of some recent changes Frank suggested using >> Button1, Button2 and Button 3 rather than Left, Middle and Right to avoid >> the LH/RH mouse conundrum. I haven't been able to find anything in the >> documentation re input devices but I could have missed it >> >> Two of my mice have 6 buttons and two scroll wheels (basic config is a 2 >> button + central scroll/button) and another only has 2 buttons and a single >> scroll wheel/button. Linux Mint can configure that for LH operation, >> emulation of a centre button by pressing both buttons together, scrolling >> reversal and double click timeout and I presume most OSs will have something >> similar. Then we go to Macs and we have single buttons and magic mice to >> contend with. Then there are tablets and touchpads and gestures. GTK3 >> seems to support a wide range >> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/chap-input-handling.html and does >> interpret the scroll wheel appropriately on my mice but the wheel button >> inserts "another" each time it is pressed while editing a transaction in a >> register - not too useful. >> >> It is clearly far too onerous to describe all possible mice/input >> variations. >> >> My own preference would to perhaps settle on a fairly common 2 button RH >> basic mouse and keyboard configuration and describe operations in terms of >> that. Perhaps then offer in a wiki section some translations from this >> configuration to other configurations like track pads that could be >> populated by users. I think Left (Centre) Right for a RH mouse is likely to >> be far less confusing to translate than a "Button1 Button2, Button3 where >> it is totally ambiguous whether the mouse is LH RH or upside down. >> >David, >The middle-button behavior on Linux is an X-Windows thing: The right button >begins a selection, the left button completes the selection, and the middle >button pastes the selection. I don't know if Wayland has that behavior as >well. Gtk has a GdkSelection class to try to provide it on other Ones but it >was implemented only partly on Windows and not at all on MacOS. It's been >deprecated for some time. >If you don't like "left click" or "click button 1", how about "primary click" >and "secondary click"? You could even say "primary click/tap" to include the >touchpad users. >I don't think that it's particularly useful for our documentation to try to >teach users the basics of using their computers, and explaining everything at >that level quickly gets tiresome for the majority of users who know how to >click a button, select some text, or open a context menu. >Regards, >John Ralls >___ >gnucash-devel mailing list >gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel +1 to John's comments. I think it best to focus on the task, rather than the specific mechanics. David T. ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Mouse usage in Gnucash
I would expect that the language of ‘primary’ and ’secondary’ click is the most versatile across platforms and preferences. It allows for OS discrepancies, accounts for touch vs. click mice, and allows for handidness considerations. Of course, people using accessibility interfaces might not literally ‘click or tap’ but the concept of selection is the same. If there is an ‘all-inclusive’ term, so be it, but I’m not personally aware of one. (and getting too general might even detract from the specific communication intended) So far, my experience with touch devices has been that ’tap/click’=primary/left-click and ’two-finger-tap/click’=secondary/right-click but that could be a MacOS thing. However, I don’t experience anything different using the same hardware in VMs with Linux or Windows so maybe it gets translated properly by the VM software. I’ve yet to use the same touch hardware with either of those OS options natively. Now, how do you intend to describe interacting with GnuCash via a VR/AR interface where you point out in the space around you? (just kidding of course...) Regards, Adrien > On Oct 11, 2019 w41d284, at 6:35 PM, David Cousens > wrote: > > Thanks John, > > I agree totally. I am trying to settle on something which might be > intelligible or at least easily translatable to users on other OSs and > devices. Frank raised the issue with me while reviewing changes to the help > manual importing section. I tried what he suggested out but my view on the > end result is that it ends up being unintelligible to everybody and I may > yet revert it. > > I am not too concerned about fairly experienced users (they will figure it > out) but the novice who comes in without too much experience of other OSs > and computers is the real target - the one who gets hung up if the > description is not exactly the way the box in front of him operates. They > are becoming rarer beasts these days once they have grandkids to educate > them properly. > > I personally am happy with the left click/tap and right click/tap notation > and then let users translate that as required for their specific > equipment/OS as necessary. My son is a leftie and he has never really had a > problem translating automatically from the RH world unless the devices were > physically right handed. > > The touchpads on my laptop and tablet with a touchscreen all respond to > tap/s on either side of the touchpad or on the screen as expected so the > click/tap may be the way to go. I don't use tablets too much so I'm not too > au fait with the finer points of gestures in any case. I just blunder my way > through. > > David ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Mouse usage in Gnucash
Thanks John, I agree totally. I am trying to settle on something which might be intelligible or at least easily translatable to users on other OSs and devices. Frank raised the issue with me while reviewing changes to the help manual importing section. I tried what he suggested out but my view on the end result is that it ends up being unintelligible to everybody and I may yet revert it. I am not too concerned about fairly experienced users (they will figure it out) but the novice who comes in without too much experience of other OSs and computers is the real target - the one who gets hung up if the description is not exactly the way the box in front of him operates. They are becoming rarer beasts these days once they have grandkids to educate them properly. I personally am happy with the left click/tap and right click/tap notation and then let users translate that as required for their specific equipment/OS as necessary. My son is a leftie and he has never really had a problem translating automatically from the RH world unless the devices were physically right handed. The touchpads on my laptop and tablet with a touchscreen all respond to tap/s on either side of the touchpad or on the screen as expected so the click/tap may be the way to go. I don't use tablets too much so I'm not too au fait with the finer points of gestures in any case. I just blunder my way through. David - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] Mouse usage in Gnucash
> On Oct 10, 2019, at 10:26 PM, David Cousens wrote: > > Do we by any chance have some sort of standard description of mouse usage in > GNuCash on the various OS. > > I am updating documentation. Docbooks has tags for description of mouse > operations. With configurable mouses for LH or RH operation terms like Left > Click and Right Click start to become ambiguous. DocBooks has tags for > . In a review of some recent changes Frank suggested using > Button1, Button2 and Button 3 rather than Left, Middle and Right to avoid > the LH/RH mouse conundrum. I haven't been able to find anything in the > documentation re input devices but I could have missed it > > Two of my mice have 6 buttons and two scroll wheels (basic config is a 2 > button + central scroll/button) and another only has 2 buttons and a single > scroll wheel/button. Linux Mint can configure that for LH operation, > emulation of a centre button by pressing both buttons together, scrolling > reversal and double click timeout and I presume most OSs will have something > similar. Then we go to Macs and we have single buttons and magic mice to > contend with. Then there are tablets and touchpads and gestures. GTK3 > seems to support a wide range > https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/chap-input-handling.html and does > interpret the scroll wheel appropriately on my mice but the wheel button > inserts "another" each time it is pressed while editing a transaction in a > register - not too useful. > > It is clearly far too onerous to describe all possible mice/input > variations. > > My own preference would to perhaps settle on a fairly common 2 button RH > basic mouse and keyboard configuration and describe operations in terms of > that. Perhaps then offer in a wiki section some translations from this > configuration to other configurations like track pads that could be > populated by users. I think Left (Centre) Right for a RH mouse is likely to > be far less confusing to translate than a "Button1 Button2, Button3 where > it is totally ambiguous whether the mouse is LH RH or upside down. > David, The middle-button behavior on Linux is an X-Windows thing: The right button begins a selection, the left button completes the selection, and the middle button pastes the selection. I don't know if Wayland has that behavior as well. Gtk has a GdkSelection class to try to provide it on other Ones but it was implemented only partly on Windows and not at all on MacOS. It's been deprecated for some time. If you don't like "left click" or "click button 1", how about "primary click" and "secondary click"? You could even say "primary click/tap" to include the touchpad users. I don't think that it's particularly useful for our documentation to try to teach users the basics of using their computers, and explaining everything at that level quickly gets tiresome for the majority of users who know how to click a button, select some text, or open a context menu. Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
[GNC-dev] Mouse usage in Gnucash
Do we by any chance have some sort of standard description of mouse usage in GNuCash on the various OS. I am updating documentation. Docbooks has tags for description of mouse operations. With configurable mouses for LH or RH operation terms like Left Click and Right Click start to become ambiguous. DocBooks has tags for . In a review of some recent changes Frank suggested using Button1, Button2 and Button 3 rather than Left, Middle and Right to avoid the LH/RH mouse conundrum. I haven't been able to find anything in the documentation re input devices but I could have missed it Two of my mice have 6 buttons and two scroll wheels (basic config is a 2 button + central scroll/button) and another only has 2 buttons and a single scroll wheel/button. Linux Mint can configure that for LH operation, emulation of a centre button by pressing both buttons together, scrolling reversal and double click timeout and I presume most OSs will have something similar. Then we go to Macs and we have single buttons and magic mice to contend with. Then there are tablets and touchpads and gestures. GTK3 seems to support a wide range https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/chap-input-handling.html and does interpret the scroll wheel appropriately on my mice but the wheel button inserts "another" each time it is pressed while editing a transaction in a register - not too useful. It is clearly far too onerous to describe all possible mice/input variations. My own preference would to perhaps settle on a fairly common 2 button RH basic mouse and keyboard configuration and describe operations in terms of that. Perhaps then offer in a wiki section some translations from this configuration to other configurations like track pads that could be populated by users. I think Left (Centre) Right for a RH mouse is likely to be far less confusing to translate than a "Button1 Button2, Button3 where it is totally ambiguous whether the mouse is LH RH or upside down. Any feedback would be appreciated. David - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-Dev-f1435356.html ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: [GNC-dev] code.gnucash.org down?
Indeed, There was a network outage that took out my whole network. It's back now, email is now flowing, and the wiki should be back online. The gnucash website is hosted elsewhere and was not affected. Sorry for the inconvenience. -derek On Thu, October 10, 2019 4:35 pm, Tommy Trussell wrote: > I presume this message won't go through (assuming it's hosted at the same > place) but I am unable to load wiki.gnucash.org. > > www.gnucash.org is working at the moment. > ___ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
[GNC-dev] [MAINT] network outage affecting code.gnucash.org
Hi, There was a network outage that took out code.gnucash.org for the past 30-ish hours. The cablemodem in front of the network got reset in a way that it blocked the router sitting behind it. I have reset the CM configuration and packets are now flowing. There's a tech scheduled to come in the next 30 minutes and I'll make sure he doesn't break it. This affected the Wiki, Email, IRC Logger, Git, and all other services run off code.gnucash.org. At this point messages should be flowing again, so while there will be a delay I don't expect anything to be lost. Sorry for the inconvenience. Long term, the systems will be moving to more permanent digs which have better networking. I expect that move to happen before the end of the year, hopefully sooner rather than later. Please let me know if you have more issues. Thanks, -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
[GNC-dev] code.gnucash.org down?
I presume this message won't go through (assuming it's hosted at the same place) but I am unable to load wiki.gnucash.org. www.gnucash.org is working at the moment. ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
