The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread M.R.
Over the last year Marcus and me discussed ideas on how to make encryption easier for non-crypto geeks. We prepared a short paper... Interesting. However, the problem of widening email encryption practice is not technical, it is motivational. Broadly speaking, there are those that have

Re: STEED - Usable end-to-end encryption

2011-10-20 Thread Werner Koch
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:30, lists-gnupg...@lina.inka.de said: the lowest efford are discovery via personal web pages like doing XDR or maybe webfinger. Most users wont be able to have special RRs - not even Most users don't have personal web pages. So what now? Well many users have a facebook

Re: STEED - Usable end-to-end encryption

2011-10-20 Thread Werner Koch
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:10, kloec...@kde.org said: What NEW standard are you talking about? Werner wants to use OpenPGP. and S/MIME! We actually don't care. For certain MUAs it is much simpler to implement something on top of S/MIME than to trying to get OpenPGP support. The actual protocol

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread Werner Koch
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:39, makro...@gmail.com said: Interesting. However, the problem of widening email encryption practice is not technical, it is motivational. Right and that is why it encryption must be the default. On the other hand, I keep wondering: why are we (and we obviously are,

Re: STEED - Usable end-to-end encryption

2011-10-20 Thread Bernd Eckenfels
Am 20.10.2011 04:16, schrieb Marcus Brinkmann: You are right that it is a challenge to get the support in the providers the lowest efford are discovery via personal web pages like doing XDR or maybe webfinger. Most users wont be able to have special RRs - not even for their own domains (which is

Re: STEED - Usable end-to-end encryption

2011-10-20 Thread smu johnson
Hi, I read this briefly, and I'd actually like to read it over later and maybe contribute some ideas. The lack of people caring about cryptography is quite apparent, and may be solved with some good ideas of making things less annoying / hard to use. I'd be happy to help. On Mon, Oct 17, 2011

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 10/20/2011 1:39 AM, M.R. wrote: Interesting. However, the problem of widening email encryption practice is not technical, it is motivational. Absolutely agreed. Shirley Gaw, Ed Felten and Patricia Fernandez-Kelly had a wonderful paper a few years ago, Secrecy, Flagging, and Paranoia:

Re: Expired keys

2011-10-20 Thread Jerry
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:17:22 +0200 Hauke Laging articulated: Am Mittwoch, 19. Oktober 2011, 16:09:26 schrieb Jerry: I have several keys listed as expired. The key is listed as having only a public part. All attempts at deleting these keys has failed. How do I go about removing them? It

Re: STEED - Usable end-to-end encryption

2011-10-20 Thread Mark H. Wood
What proportion of consumer-grade ISPs have bothered to implement DNSSEC for serving their customers? I don't think mine does, and they're a big outfit. If I asked, I expect they'd think I was speaking Aldebaranese or something. -- Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer mw...@iupui.edu Asking

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread Mark H. Wood
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 05:39:28AM +, M.R. wrote: On the other hand, I keep wondering: why are we (and we obviously are, witness this paper and the initiative behind it) so motivated to spread the gospel of e-mail encryption among those that completely lack the motivation for it? o

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread Mark H. Wood
BTW I have nothing to hide but like my privacy anyway. Privacy is essential for maintaining personal boundaries, as well as security. (That said, the vast majority of my use of crypto in email is to establish identity, not to protect privacy. I *want* to be positively identifiable in most

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread Mark H. Wood
I suspect that, for many, too hard to do is not as significant a factor as too hard to believe in. Over here, doctors' offices have at last been dragged, kicking and screaming, into the mid 20th century and will at least use FAX to transmit prescriptions to the pharmacy, but mention e-mail and

Re: Expired keys

2011-10-20 Thread Hauke Laging
Am Donnerstag, 20. Oktober 2011, 15:26:29 schrieb Jerry: I have tried using the GUI. What would be the proper way to do it from the CLI? I am afraid of removing the wrong keys? gpg --delete-key name There is a confirmation in order to avoid removing the wrong ones. But you can give the

Re: Expired keys

2011-10-20 Thread Jerry
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 17:00:17 +0200 Hauke Laging articulated: Am Donnerstag, 20. Oktober 2011, 15:26:29 schrieb Jerry: I have tried using the GUI. What would be the proper way to do it from the CLI? I am afraid of removing the wrong keys? gpg --delete-key name There is a confirmation

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread M.R.
On 20/10/11 12:30, Robert J. Hansen wrote: ...Shirley Gaw, Ed Felten and Patricia Fernandez-Kelly had a wonderful paper a few years ago, Secrecy, Flagging, and Paranoia: Adoption Criteria in Encrypted Email... Thanks for the link, interesting reading. The quote from the paper that follows

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread Robert J. Hansen
On 10/20/11 11:34 AM, M.R. wrote: I propose this way of thinking is counterproductive. It will not succeed in any meaningful way, because encryption by default is a completely unrealistic goal... Only he who attempts the absurd is capable of achieving the impossible. -- Miguel de Unamuno He

Re: Expired keys

2011-10-20 Thread Richard
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 17:23, Jerry gnupg.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Is there a way to delete all expired keys at once Have a look at gpgkeymgr (http://nudin.github.com/GnuPGP-Tools/), that's probably what you want. Best, Richard ___

Re: STEED - Usable end-to-end encryption

2011-10-20 Thread Marcus Brinkmann
On 10/20/2011 10:25 PM, Matthias-Christian Ott wrote: But who are the providers? Except for people who work in computer science, physics or similar fields I don't know people who run their own mail servers or are part of a cooperative. Most other people use a handful of providers who often

Re: The problem is motivational

2011-10-20 Thread MichaelQuigley
- Message from M.R. makro...@gmail.com on Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:34:29 + - To: gnupg-users@gnupg.org Subject: Re: The problem is motivational On 20/10/11 12:30, Robert J. Hansen wrote: . . . . . . .