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reynt0 escribió:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, David Shaw wrote:
...
whether the filesystem you are using overwrites in place or not. Many
modern filesystems (Reiser, XFS) do not necessarily overwrite in
place. More primitive filesystems (like the FAT
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008, David Shaw wrote:
OS X is an interesting case. The standard filesystem, as you note, is
HFS+ with journaling. Usually this is a danger sign for shredding as
the shred process doesn't know all the information it needs to do a
proper shredding job. However, Apple has
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David Shaw wrote (in part):
That's exactly the problem - given modern disks, and modern
filesystems, there is not a perfect guarantee that you'll hit the same
disk blocks that the original file landed on. The disk could
invisibly remap a
On Aug 21, 2008, at 10:54 PM, Faramir wrote:
Atom Smasher escribió:
that's basically what sfill (part of the srm package from thc)
does, per
partition. the other way of doing basically the same thing:
dd if=/dev/urandom of=/partition/tmp-file ; rm /partition/tmp-file
Now, a lot of coffee
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, David Shaw wrote:
. . .
whether the filesystem you are using overwrites in place or not. Many modern
filesystems (Reiser, XFS) do not necessarily overwrite in place. More
primitive filesystems (like the FAT FS that is used on many external disks)
do overwrite in place.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
ObWarning: many of the techniques we've discussed for destroying hard
drives are really quite dangerous. Thermite is _not_ a friendly
chemical. Neither is sulfuric acid. Even an approach as low-tech as
hammering the platters into oblivion can be
Chris Walters wrote:
Ah, yes. The obligatory warning. One method that I suggested would get the
gold star for dangerous, foolhardy, do not do: Placing your hard drive in the
core of an active nuclear reactor.
Better than some ideas I've heard. (E.g., use ClF3 to scour the
platters. Only
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
Faramir wrote:
lets say I just want to avoid recovery software like get data back
being able to recover a file. Is there a reliable way to do it without
going to extreme solutions?
No.
==
i'll play the other side...
depending on
* Chris Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would sooner use 30 M hydrochloric acid than sulfuric acid
30M? I guess not. Industrial grade conc. hydrochloric acid is about
12M max
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markus reichelt wrote:
30M? I guess not. Industrial grade conc. hydrochloric acid is about
12M max
I am no chemist, but I would not be at all shocked to find that
well-stocked research laboratories have supplies on hand that you or I
would consider ridiculous.
As an example, a few weeks ago I
markus reichelt wrote:
* Chris Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would sooner use 30 M hydrochloric acid than sulfuric acid
30M? I guess not. Industrial grade conc. hydrochloric acid is about
12M max
I would guess that you've never taken an advance university chemistry course.
One of
Robert J. Hansen wrote:
I am no chemist, but I would not be at all shocked to find that
well-stocked research laboratories have supplies on hand that you or I
would consider ridiculous.
As an example, a few weeks ago I was talking to a fellow graduate
student here. He was talking about the
Atom Smasher wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
ObWarning: many of the techniques we've discussed for destroying hard
drives are really quite dangerous. Thermite is _not_ a friendly
chemical. Neither is sulfuric acid. Even an approach as low-tech as
hammering the
How about dropping HD in Lava from some exploding mountain?
Ahh, the climactic scene from the movie Lord of the disks where Frodo
BaGPGins drops the platters in Mount Doom.
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Robert J. Hansen wrote:
Faramir wrote:
lets say I just want to avoid recovery software like get data back
being able to recover a file. Is there a reliable way to do it
without going to extreme solutions?
No.
It's not clear to me why this is the case; it seems to me that if you're only
On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:10 AM, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
I can only speak for myself here, but I strongly suspect Werner,
David,
Mark and everyone else who's been chiming in will agree -- we are not
talking about total destruction of hard drives as something you should
want to do.
We're talking
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Kunal Shah escribió:
How about dropping HD in Lava from some exploding mountain?
I think maybe it would be easier to ask government to allow you to
include the hdd between the seized weapons to be destroyed... or maybe
to talk with a company in
Faramir wrote:
I think maybe it would be easier to ask government to allow you to
include the hdd between the seized weapons to be destroyed...
There are a ton of very efficient ways to destroy hard drives which
everyday users can do. There's no need to have other people do it for
you --
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Chris De Young escribió:
Robert J. Hansen wrote:
Faramir wrote:
lets say I just want to avoid recovery software like get data back
being able to recover a file. Is there a reliable way to do it
without going to extreme solutions?
No.
It's
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Atom Smasher escribió:
on the same topic, i was also thinking that cooking a HD above the
platters' CP would also require adequate ventilation, and may render an
oven not usable for food.
Well, about CP, I found M.I.T. - Walter Lewin -
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, Faramir wrote:
That's is what I am no longer sure I can do, I mean, it seems I can
tell the disk overwrite that file, and the disk can write somewhere
else, not over the sectors containing the file I want to destroy (at
least, that is what I have understood from this
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Atom Smasher escribió:
that's basically what sfill (part of the srm package from thc) does, per
partition. the other way of doing basically the same thing:
dd if=/dev/urandom of=/partition/tmp-file ; rm /partition/tmp-file
Now, a lot of
On Aug 21, 2008, at 5:08 PM, Faramir wrote:
Chris De Young escribió:
Robert J. Hansen wrote:
Faramir wrote:
lets say I just want to avoid recovery software like get data
back
being able to recover a file. Is there a reliable way to do it
without going to extreme solutions?
No.
It's not
Robert J. Hansen (20.08.2008 09:12):
Bhushan Jain wrote:
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
Assuming you meant GnuPG, the answer is 'no'.
Assuming you meant PGP, the answer is 'maybe'. PGP provides a secure
deletion tool, but as far as I know there has
Vlad SATtva Miller wrote:
It employs Gutmann's methodology on secure file erasure, so there
*is* a study of its effectiveness.
No one in the private sector has ever claimed to be able to recover data
overwritten even once.
Think about it this way. The next two people you see today, one of
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
However, as you are asking this question of the GnuPG list, I suspect
you mean to ask about GnuPG. GnuPG does not have a secure delete
feature.
Let me add that one reason for not providing a secure deletetion feature
is that gpg is Unix tool
On Aug 20, 2008, at 3:04 AM, Vlad SATtva Miller wrote:
Robert J. Hansen (20.08.2008 09:12):
Bhushan Jain wrote:
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
Assuming you meant GnuPG, the answer is 'no'.
Assuming you meant PGP, the answer is 'maybe'. PGP provides a
On Aug 20, 2008, at 4:08 AM, Werner Koch wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
However, as you are asking this question of the GnuPG list, I suspect
you mean to ask about GnuPG. GnuPG does not have a secure delete
feature.
Let me add that one reason for not providing a
http://www.fileshredder.org/
File Shredder works perfectly great for this purpose.
-- Original message --
From: Atom Smasher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Bhushan Jain wrote:
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
To check the effectiveness, according to DoD anything that is not wiped with
algorithm DoD 5220.22M has potential to be recovered.
File shredder works well with DoD algorithm and higher. Also it is free.
If you are looking to wipe a disk,you can use DiskNuke. Both are
sourceforge.net projects.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 09:11:16AM -0500, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
If anyone on the list is an EE or a physics geek looking for a good
paper, it might be interesting to explore using the Curie Point as a
data erasure technique. For a lot of the exotic magnetic materials used
in modern hard
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
If you are looking to wipe a disk,you can use DiskNuke. Both are
sourceforge.net projects.
You cannot clear a modern drive using external software! It doesn't
matter what validated software algorithm you use. Drives may reorder
sectors on
Werner Koch wrote:
You cannot clear a modern drive using external software! It doesn't
matter what validated software algorithm you use. Drives may reorder
sectors on the fly, they use read and write caches and do all kind of
tricks to squeeze out more performance. There are even solid
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Chris Walters wrote:
Werner Koch wrote:
That won't be an easy puzzle to solve.
I hate to tell you this, but the F.B.I. Computer Forensics Laboratory has
successfully recovered data from a drive, where the platters were shot
multiple
times
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John W. Moore III wrote:
Chris Walters wrote:
Werner Koch wrote:
That won't be an easy puzzle to solve.
I hate to tell you this, but the F.B.I. Computer Forensics Laboratory has
successfully recovered data from a drive, where the platters
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:21:04PM -0400, John W. Moore III wrote:
I believe that We are all agreed that physical destruction of the HD is
the only truly effective means of ensuring Data cannot be recovered.
There is also the possibility to use encryption for *all* data on a
harddisk. If the
Mark H. Wood wrote:
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:00:19PM -0400, Chris Walters wrote:
I hate to tell you this, but the F.B.I. Computer Forensics Laboratory has
successfully recovered data from a drive, where the platters were shot
multiple
times with a shotgun.
The only sure way to make sure
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:00:19PM -0400, Chris Walters wrote:
I hate to tell you this, but the F.B.I. Computer Forensics Laboratory has
successfully recovered data from a drive, where the platters were shot
multiple
times with a shotgun.
The only sure way to make sure no one can recover
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Chris Walters wrote:
I hate to tell you this, but the F.B.I. Computer Forensics Laboratory
has successfully recovered data from a drive, where the platters were
shot multiple times with a shotgun.
==
that wouldn't surprise me, but is there a reference for it?
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Michel Messerschmidt wrote:
There is also the possibility to use encryption for *all* data on a
harddisk. If the key is stored somewhere else (e.g. in your mind or on
another disk), this may prevent data recovery on a similar level.
===
encrypted disks, and
Mark H. Wood wrote:
Hmmm. You'd have to ensure that every point within the coating on
every platter reaches the critical temperature (perhaps for a minimum
amount of time?). That sounds too uncertain when certain destruction
is required.
The idea is that if, say, the CP of the
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Werner Koch escribió:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
If you are looking to wipe a disk,you can use DiskNuke. Both are
sourceforge.net projects.
You cannot clear a modern drive using external software! It doesn't
Chris Walters wrote:
I hate to tell you this, but the F.B.I. Computer Forensics Laboratory has
successfully recovered data from a drive, where the platters were shot
multiple
times with a shotgun.
I have a friend who works in Interesting Places who tells me they once
successfully put
Faramir wrote:
lets say I just want to avoid recovery software like get data back
being able to recover a file. Is there a reliable way to do it
without going to extreme solutions?
No.
I have seen advices about using ccleaner, fileshredder, erase57, and
other tools like those
For the most
Michel Messerschmidt wrote:
There is also the possibility to use encryption for *all* data on a
harddisk. If the key is stored somewhere else (e.g. in your mind or on
another disk), this may prevent data recovery on a similar level.
Let's not confuse a *key* and a *passphrase*. This
Robert J. Hansen wrote:
Faramir wrote:
lets say I just want to avoid recovery software like get data back
being able to recover a file. Is there a reliable way to do it
without going to extreme solutions?
No.
I have seen advices about using ccleaner, fileshredder, erase57, and
other
Kunal Shah wrote:
I wouldn't argue about methods discussed here to destroy the disk.
However one consideration is, what data we are talking about. In my
CISSP course, I was not taught to *destroy* data or protect it. I was
just taught to make it so difficult for hacker to access it so that
Hi!
Am Mittwoch, den 20.08.2008, 21:09 -0400 schrieb Faramir:
The idea is
to make deleted files (not whole drives) unrecoverable to commercial
recovery software.
The german IT-magazine c't did such a test quite some time ago (in 2003,
IIRC) and found that a data recovery firm was unable to
Robert J. Hansen wrote:
I can only speak for myself here, but I strongly suspect Werner, David,
Mark and everyone else who's been chiming in will agree -- we are not
talking about total destruction of hard drives as something you should
want to do.
We're talking about total destruction of
Hi all,
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
--
Thanks,
--
Bhushan
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On Aug 19, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Bhushan Jain wrote:
Hi all,
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
PGP has a secure delete feature, yes.
However, as you are asking this question of the GnuPG list, I suspect
you mean to ask about GnuPG. GnuPG does not have a secure
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Bhushan Jain wrote:
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
=
you wouldn't use a hammer to put in screws, would you? there are tools for
deleting files, but gpg isn't in the list. start with this one -
this might be a better link if you're looking for a tool -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method#Software_implementations
--
...atom
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
Bhushan Jain wrote:
I wanted to know how could the file be deleted securely using PGP?
Assuming you meant GnuPG, the answer is 'no'.
Assuming you meant PGP, the answer is 'maybe'. PGP provides a secure
deletion tool, but as far as I know there has never been any serious
independent study of
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