Re: [lisp] [mpls] draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: [tsvwg] Milestones changed for tsvwg WG)

2014-01-14 Thread Stewart Bryant
Lloyd I have just read the Stone paper and I have some significant concerns about its validity with modern h/w. Certainly it is hard to credit the notion that the error rate is in the range 1:1000 to 1:32000 as reported by the authors. The paper was written in 2000 with hardware that would

Re: [lisp] [mpls] OT (was Re: draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: [tsvwg] Milestones changed for tsvwg WG))

2014-01-14 Thread Stewart Bryant
I agree the paper is now obsolete. Stewart On 14/01/2014 17:06, Curtis Villamizar wrote: Lloyd, Maybe you should reread the paper too before citing it as evidence. Check the date on it. Check the cited causes of errors. Packet traces from 1998 and 1999 are prehaps not so relevante today,

Re: [lisp] [mpls] OT (was Re: draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: [tsvwg] Milestones changed for tsvwg WG))

2014-01-14 Thread l.wood
I don't think sayng 'oh, that error source is no longer a problem' disproves Stone's overall point about undetected errors, though the examples he uses from the technology of the day are necessarily dated. Dismissing the overall point because the examples use obsolete technology is throwing the

Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] [mpls] OT (was Re: draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: Milestones changed for tsvwg WG))

2014-01-14 Thread Wesley Eddy
On 1/14/2014 4:57 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: I don't think sayng 'oh, that error source is no longer a problem' disproves Stone's overall point about undetected errors, though the examples he uses from the technology of the day are necessarily dated. Dismissing the overall point because

Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] [mpls] OT (was Re: draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: Milestones changed for tsvwg WG))

2014-01-14 Thread Stewart Bryant
On 14/01/2014 22:07, Wesley Eddy wrote: On 1/14/2014 4:57 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: I don't think sayng 'oh, that error source is no longer a problem' disproves Stone's overall point about undetected errors, though the examples he uses from the technology of the day are necessarily dated.

Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] [mpls] OT (was Re: draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: Milestones changed for tsvwg WG))

2014-01-14 Thread l.wood
Stewart, your 'I'm not in tunnel applications' suggests you've misunderstood the argument here. The point is not to protect the tunnel traffic (which can quite happily checksum itself), it is to protect everything else on the network from misdelivery. It's not the tunnel application, it's every

Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] [mpls] OT (was Re: draft-ietf-mpls-in-udp was RE: gre-in-udp draft (was: RE: Milestones changed for tsvwg WG))

2014-01-14 Thread l.wood
That's robustness _for the tunnelled traffic_. Not for anything else sharing the network - that hasn't been instrumented and measured. Lloyd Wood http://about.me/lloydwood From: Curtis Villamizar [cur...@ipv6.occnc.com] Sent: 15 January 2014 03:43 To: