Trying to borrow the authority of Marx has long been a gambit on the left.
In the example at hand, we get extrapolations from a quote in the Grundrisse
and from Marx's address to the First International. Of course, Marx had to
tailor the latter speech to his audience of trade union officials
The South African Communist Party (SACP) combined two decisions that virtually
ensured the post-apartheid disaster.
1) It defined its first major goal to be a "national democratic revolution."
See the 1984 party constitution and earlier documents.
2) The product of this revolution was to be a
On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 12:34 PM, Tom Walker wrote:
>
> Marx contrasted the *defeat* of the 1848 revolution to the *success* of the
> Ten Hours Bill:
The celebration of the ten hours law is valid. Nonetheless, the quote has
nothing to support a claim that Marx contrasted that victory with the
The massive protest movement against the U.S. war on Vietnam in the 1960s and
'70s did not trigger a revolution, nor come close to one. The same is true of
the protest movement against the U.S.-Israeli genocide in Gaza. But comparison
of the two draws an arrow that *points to it* (
On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 06:17 PM, Tom Walker wrote:
>
> I frankly don't see "workers overthrow capitalism" as a self-evidently
> inevitable miracle.
True, it is not self-evidently inevitable and it is not a miracle. Marx's
relations/forces law was a hypothesis. A lot of the arguments about the
Tom summarized, "The priority Marx gave to reduction of the working day as a
prerequisite results, in my view, from the premise that the scientific and
artistic capabilities for that humanization [of labor] develop in disposable
time, which is to say outside of the social domination inherent in
Marv characterizes "Amira Hass, who has always been well respected on the
anti-Zionist left in Palestine and abroad," He gives no evidence. Hass may be
well respected on the liberal Zionist left, and on the left that preached the
mirage of Israel peacefully transforming itself into a secular
Who beside Marv takes seriously advice for Palestinians published in Haaretz of
all places?
Haas' article opens:
In Israel, the slogan "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is
perceived as a call for the eradication of the Jewish state. As is the way of
slogans, it doesn't
It will be a tough job to establish a real connection of the relations/forces
law to the matter of disposable time. Regarding the latter, we must also
acknowledge an almost opposite ideal: the humanizing of labor so that it
becomes a sought joy rather than a burden imposed by exploiters and by
The New York chapter of HealthCareWorkers4Palestine will demonstrate outside
NYU. You might be able to get details by following
https://www.instagram.com/healthworkers4palestine/
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>From the Morning Star article, which never speaks capitalism nor imperialism,
>and from a friend's observation that the conference was devoid of all class
>content, and from a report that a communist group was prevented from
>leafleting, I am skeptical that there were "attendees from all
Several months ago Roberts turned off comments at his blog, so let us note here
a couple of flaws of this post.
The author whose book Roberts reviews is "head of Rockefeller Capital
Management‘s international business, and was an emerging markets investor at
Morgan Stanley Investment
Exposure of China's classic raw-materials imperialism – from Sputnik News!
The short report below is from a website associated with Epoch Times, an
anti-communist publication tied to the Falun Gong cult. It translates
from an article on a Chinese-language website called Sputnik News. (The
Mass movements never aim all their arrows right on target. Remember "Ho, Ho, Ho
Chi Minh is gonna win"?
Marv has only criticism that serves his purpose of introducing a NY Times
article. No positive suggestion, no alternative slogan that indicts the Zionist
power figures without hurting his
"'Overcapacity' is not always dumping," Marv tells us. Scare quote aside, he
doesn't give us his idea of what constitutes dumping. No matter. It is clear
from the facts that China pursues mercantilism: the building of industry
capacity beyond what the domestic buyers can buy, intending to
"less to do with a more repressive state apparatus than with what surveys have
shown to be a higher level of popular satisfaction with the political
leadership and system" -- You gotta be kidding.
* Remember the sudden PRC end to its draconian COVID lockdowns without adequate
preparation
Marv gives us a series of erroneous factual assertions with no proof.
"the key industries are mostly state-owned"
Just not true. We went through the facts in previous threads.
"private corporations are subordinate to the ruling party rather than the other
way round as in Western capitalism"
AFP: What is the Chinese government’s reaction to the death of the Iranian
President? Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin replied:
President Xi Jinping has sent a message of condolences to Iran’s First
Vice-President Mohammad Mokhber President Raisi made important contribution
to
Perhaps of interest to fans of China's socialism is its vigorous invocation of
free market principles. For example:
The global industrial and supply chains are shaped and developed by the laws of
market and business choices combined. Any deliberate intervention to
instrumentalize and weaponize
>From the article: "At yet another lively union meeting, Local 879 members
>voted to bring together Canadian, Mexican, and U.S. Ford workers to explore
>the project of international solidarity." Good, in a situation of neighboring
>countries and a situation in which Canada and Mexico were not,
On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 01:14 PM, Patrick Bond wrote:
>
> Just presented a paper last week to the Africa Coal Network (EJ activists)
> here in Joburg and hope to run it by comrades in Shanghai next month
> too... an excerpt on this matter is below, so does it need adjusting or
> updating?
Nope,
On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 08:51 AM, hari kumar wrote:
>
> The leading forces of Chinese capitalists have (if belatedly) switched
> from land-building-web) to some more fundamental economic forces.
It looks more like overaccumulation continues, even as it runs into
political-economic limits. From
Chinese social media companies remove posts ‘showing off wealth and
worshipping money’
Guardian, 17 May 2024
In a statement posted online on Wednesday, Weibo said it had spent this
month carrying out special management work on “undesirable
value-orientated content”, including content
Marv says, "there are no Chinese EV's in the US." Reuters, April 24: "A
made-in-China electric vehicle will hit U.S. dealers this summer offering power
and efficiency similar to the Tesla Model Y, the world's best-selling EV, but
for about $8,000 less."
The WSWS analysis that Marv endorses omits material forces at work. Most
important, Chinese labor is paid a small fraction of U.S. wages for the same
work. Also, Chinese regulations on such matters as disposal of waste byproducts
are often lax compared to U.S. regulations. But WSWS supports the
With all due respect to the foreign minister, the living standard of the South
African masses under the ANC has if anything gotten worse since liberation from
apartheid. "South Africa is, by most contemporary measures, the most unequal
country in the world."
With all due respect to the foreign minister, the living standard of the South
African masses under the ANC has if anything gotten worse since liberation from
apartheid. The most important thing the Palestinian working people can learn
from them is: organize the struggle for liberation from
Government taxation, regulation, and extensive social programs – Stiglitz's
progressive capitalism is social democracy. Barely removed is democratic
socialism, which in most versions adds loose economic planning guided by where
the best returns are (hint: profitability rules). No wonder all
A Chinese imperialist intellectual speaks
By an imperialist intellectual I mean one who formulates assessments and
policies for an imperialist power. Foreign Affairs magazine is an example of a
forum for these persons in the U.S.
China has imperialist intellectuals, too. Take some remarks by
This is cherry-picking. The intellectuals of U.S. imperialism argue the fine
points of the global scene in Foreign Policy all the time. They have jostling
views, some obviously dependent on who funds their position in a think tank.
Among not always consistent statements, this particular article
Marv asserts, "the working class masses ... identify the Democratic, Labour and
other left-centre parties with the advent of the welfare state and the
conservative parties with having resisted it and wanting it dismantled."
Another fact-free assertion.
*Compare 2008:* "Election-night polling
Fain to "the powers that be:" "if you can’t take the outcry, stop supporting
the war." That is, if you can surf the protest wave, you can support the war.
Is this sloppy thinking or more of his feisty collaborationism (
Just put two headlines together!
In China, Elon Musk scores wins on the path to self-driving cars
Reuters, April 29, 2024
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/boss-battery-giant-catl-visits-elon-musks-hotel-beijing-reuters-witness-2024-04-29/
Tesla mass layoffs slam Fremont and Palo Alto, with
• "Socialism" in the article is a cup of weak tea dissolved in a gallon of
water.
• Harris nicely describes the Heritage Foundation project, a document. He
presents almost nothing to establish that the plan will be implemented if Trump
wins.
• Harris' list of important issues badly downplays
Background from this guy is helpful:
Where Militant Unionists Come to Plan (excerpt)
Nelson Lichtenstein, The American Prospect , April 25, 2024
Members of organizations with a left-wing pedigree or internal reform
movements, including the United Electrical Workers, the International Longshore
It is said, "The UAW represents the graduate workers and some of the academic
staff at Columbia as well as the adjunct faculty at Barnard College, Columbia’s
sister school."
https://www.leftvoice.org/dispatches-from-labor-notes-2024-solidarity-with-columbia-students-against-repression/
The UAW
On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 08:56 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> it's doubtful the PLA will militarily challenge the US even in its own
> backyard - the Philippines, Vietnam,
Marv got his future tense, and with it the facts, wrong. PRC naval forces
already challenge the Philippines and Vietnam. The
Cute; might be worth a chuckle in Canada. Probably not received so well in the
Philippines, Vietnam, and Indonesia.
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Marv's statistic is a variant of the oft-spoken tally of 800+ U.S. bases around
the world. It is a way of ignoring one pole of the contradiction. Which power
is in decay and has trouble maintaining its dominance? Which power has rapidly
expanded its military along with its economy, to the point
On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 09:59 AM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> that chart shows growth in US GDP and not a reduction in US military
> expenditures.
Yes, as labeled.
1) The leftists who grab at Keynesian doctrine and argue that military spending
props up the U.S. economy are losing the basis of
"military-industrial bedrock" here has lots of emotional energy, but
objectively, the military has not escaped the general decay of the U.S.
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On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 04:24 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> Those who quit the list [when Proyect ran it] mostly did so voluntarily.
That might be your impression. A comparative count of banned versus quits would
be a fact.
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Marv tries to hide behind an excuse that "many in the elite understand full
well that NATO encroachment triggered the invasion." Many in the elite also
understand that the back-and-forth sequence of provocations going back more
than twenty years.
The whole game of who started it is a
From the Democratic Party to “left” media like the Guardian, UAW chief
Shawn Fain is the newly-anointed labor leader. Fain will tell you that
it takes a fight to win something: he is a practitioner of /feisty/
class collaboration.
Read the article at
Malik adds to the now huge mountain of facts that support a criminal indictment
of Boeing executives ... in a court of a workers' dictatorship.
There are also a defect of reasoning and a shortcoming.
* "Mechanics always place safety first since they and their families fly the
same aircraft
On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 03:31 PM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> It's not whatabout, Charlie, it's about the capitalist class that we
> should actually do something about rather than whining about the others.
...As though U.S. workers have no need to know about the contradiction bet
On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 02:07 AM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> We don't have to cross the Pacific...
Bamford and Snowden spilled the beans on U.S. imperialist surveillance decades
ago. When a bit of news shows that the expanding monopoly capitalist power will
go even farther, some lefties play the
nist about the Communist Party of China. –Charlie
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POSTING RULES & NOTES
#1 YOU
Seems the CPGB M-L (be sure to include 'G' for Great to distinguish this group
from others of a similar name) thought it would be a good theme for a leaflet.
Not for a bit of humor among comrades, no, a "serious" leaflet.
Published, with "homlessness" typo intact, at
On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:23 AM, David Walters wrote:
>
>
>
> I thought the article was generally spot on. A quite readable summation of
> the issues with Boeing.
>
>
Thank you.
>
>
>
> I would say there is a whopping huge oversight in the article and that is
> no direction for workers
Since we are told that China is not capitalist because private ownership of the
top banks is a "hallmark of capitalism," here is news about the top four banks
in China. The state owns almost all their shares. They are entangled in the
real estate sector and its bust just like private banks. And
On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 07:35 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> a wiki article showing the breadth of state-owned enterprises in China
> which would appear to far surpass the number and percentage of SOE's found
> elsewhere.
Are you talking about the table with the state-owned entries backgrounded in
As previously noted, "the value of the oil includes the paid and unpaid labor
of the 110,000 workers and the value of the constant capital transferred to the
output, like the wear and tear of derricks or offshore rigs, their drill bits,
pumps, etc"
S.A. purports to estimate the time per hour
On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 05:14 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> many of us spent a lifetime organizing and agitating for public ownership
> of our economies
-- Nothing to do with socialism. And it is elementary that agitating for a
particular reform that entails public ownership is compatible with,
On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 03:40 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> We’re left to conclude from this list that the PRC’s economic system is
> indistinguishable from that of the UAE, Indonesia, Malaysia, Russia, Saudi
> Arabia, and India.
Actually, the conclusion is rather different. Some people hope to
On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> derive their wealth from their *ownership* of state assets
How important is it that Xi Jinping and the top layer of Communist Party of
China officials build fortunes of hundreds of millions of dollars (which they
must put into one and
On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 05:25 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> Correct. Private shareholders are only allowed to own minority stakes, as
> I indicated [no, you did not indicate]. That's what distinguishes state
> from private ownership and control of the financial system,
Marv talks in a circle
Marv tells us without foundation, "The key hallmark of modern capitalist
society is private ownership of the financial industry." This criterion simply
bakes in his view of China. Chinese capitalism has plenty of secondary
characteristics that are different from U.S., British, Japanese, French,
On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 02:12 PM, Les Schaffer wrote:
>
> ...are you up to a finer accounting, or just saying the issue is
> capitalism, cf Das Kapital,...
The concept and numbers from S. Artesian are erroneous. He or you can do the
repair work if interested; don't try to lay it off on me.
I
On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 01:11 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> Godels nods with approval at a recent piece by Charles Andrews on the
> Congo,
That piece is available at
https://www.idcommunism.com/2024/01/china-plunders-congo-exploits-miners-antiimperialists-approve.html
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John A Imani quoted S. Artesian:
>
>
>
> ...produced approximately 9.5 million barrels of oil each day, selling for
> roughly 44 dollars per barrel. So the revenue these 9500 companies
> accrued each hour was: [ *July 2015* 9500]—( 9.5 million x 44)/24 = $17.42
> million per hour. The 9500
"To ensure the safety of our data collectors in the Gaza Strip, we have
restricted the interviews with residents and displaced persons to specific
areas where there was no on-going daily fighting."
Per Figure 5, those polled report that the distribution of aid was often
discriminatory. By far
ADD: China's oil monopolies pursue their profit interest.
In case you thought the PRC had gone all out to get away from oil energy, check
out what a "commanding heights" state-owned corporation is doing.
- - - - - -
China's CNOOC discovers 100 million ton oilfield in Bohai Sea
Reuters,
Longi solar panel giant cuts a third of its workforce
It is an ordinary business news story for capitalists: the world's
largest maker of solar panels cuts about 30% of its workforce. The world
market for panels is in a slump.
But the facts of the matter do belie the Pollyanna story peddled
Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, and Xi Jinping's Report to 20th Congress
Facts count more than words. Xi Jinping says, "China respects the sovereignty
and territorial integrity of all countries." A couple of days later, the
Chinese Consul General in Manchester stepped onto UK territory outside the
Marv, you have cited sources without quoting them. I leave it to anyone to
compare the density of solid specifics in my set of posts versus yours.
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Marv belittles hundreds of millions of dollars as "chicken feed." He must be
pretty well set! Such amounts are not obtained by simple bribes for a license
or a legislative vote, the typical corruption of Western politicians.
Marv asks, "What is the evidence that the personal wealth of the
Researchers uncovered the wealth of Xi Jinping's family in 2012. See the
excerpted report below. Incidentally, the Chinese government did not outright
deny the report; it did block the New York Times website in China. More details
emerged when the Panama Papers were leaked in 2016, confirming
On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 02:09 PM, Marv Gandall quotes sympathetically:
>
> Xi as representative of those forces in the party and state which are
> trying to contain its economic and political rise in accordance with the
> Leninist formula of state capitalism under the dictatorship of the
>
Michael asks whether "workers [were] even partially in CONTROL?" in the former
Soviet Union and in early socialist China. Since workers are imbued with
capitalist ways of thinking when socialism begins, the answer cannot be a
system of bourgeois democratic procedures among workers at the points
On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 01:05 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> If the major Canadian banks and leading corporations were transformed
> into state-owned enterprises...
It seems that if you can't argue the facts, and if you won't correct your
misrepresentations of others, you retreat to fantasy
Marv denies that "its state enterprises [were] broken up and their assets
redistributed as the private property of the various CP nomenklaturas and their
cronies and their heirs."
Actually, a huge swath were privatized this way in the 1990s. And it is
relevant here, in what was still a largely
"There is a tendency on the list and the left more generally to exaggerate both
the influence of the billionaire class of private entrepreneurs in contemporary
China..."
This sentence is steeped in the mistaken view that state-owned corporations are
not capitalist.
• They are operated for
Marv: "Charlie may consider Xi's China a fascist state. I don't..." The problem
here is not China. It is Marv's definition of fascism by three essential
features. If China meets them - and you say it does - but it is not fascist,
then what counts are not the three "essential"
Another test for Marv's throwback, formalistic criteria: "... a one party
state which will outlaw ... mass organizations and eliminate freedom of
assembly and the right to vote - essential features of fascism..." Does the PRC
meet these three "essential features"? Does Marv use the fascist
S.E.I.U. Plans $200 Million Effort to Aid Biden and Democrats
... up from $150 million in the 2020 election cycle
The S.E.I.U. said it hoped to reach six million voters of color in the
battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North
Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Marv thinks I believe "the Trumpists will launch a full-fledged assault to
replace the existing Constitution with a one party state which will outlaw the
Democrats and the unions and other mass organizations and eliminate freedom of
assembly and the right to vote - essential features of
On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 12:21 AM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> I doubt they will attempt to destroy the existing constitutional
> structures. In fact, they claim to be the best defenders of The
> Constitution and their base takes them at their word.
This time Marv gives us well less than a
Michael found the WSWS reference to identity politics fanaticism in Hollywood
"undecipherable." It's pretty simple. In 2020 the Oscars "academy" adopted
numerical checklist requirements of "representation and inclusion standards"
for a movie to be eligible for Best Picture. Read them here:
Guess we're done, folks. All we get here is 1. In a nuclear age, historical
materialism is obsolete and we must retreat to reformism, and 2. "Have you
stopped beating your partner?"
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On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 06:19 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> ... reminds me...
When it comes to analogies: Is the US-China contradiction one between a
monopoly capitalist power and a socialist country, or is it a contradiction
between a decaying monopoly capitalist power and an expanding one?
"The encirclement of China and Russia by US imperialism." Rather similar to the
Nazis' rhetorical ploy against the undoubtedly punitive Versailles treaty
imposed by France and Britain after World War One:
"The Treaty was made in order ruin the German nation. But those who made the
Treaty
With a switcheroo from China as a pool of cheap labor for foreign capitalists,
we are now told "it is China’s vast and growing consumer market rather than its
cheap labour and other resources which is increasingly attracting foreign
exporters and investors." Yet:
>
> "Declining income growth
The claim that began this debate asserted "the lure of the China market for
Taiwanese capital." The trends souring that lure are the ones causing U.S.
corporate capital to hit the brakes, too:
* The influx of a vast number of low-wage workers from villages has leveled
off. Foxconn, a Taiwan
1. I can only comment on Joti Brar. Nothing said about her can be taken to
apply to her father, especially on the day after Women's Day.
2. When, as noted in the article, Joti Brar wrote 7000 words of lecturing abuse
directed at the CP of Greece, some pushback is to be expected.
3. The topic
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 08:38 AM, Michael Pugliese wrote:
>
>
>
> Re : Privilege in the Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Gorbachev era and its role in
> the collapse of the Soviet Union are examined in "Material Forces that
> Turn Socialism into Capitalism" at
>
Marv tells a long story, but for lack of evidence it is told out of whole
cloth. "They [Khrushchev-Brezhnev 'reforms'] were generally welcomed by the
masses." This is upside down. The prevalent bitter remark, "We pretend to work,
and they pretend to pay us," captures the reality.
"They [several forms of private property rights] were re-introduced with the
restoration of capitalism in 1991." All was good until 1991, and then ... poof!
But to explain how the Soviet Union turned off the socialist road to communism,
the basic change in ideology in 1956 and the developments
Privilege in the Khrushchev-Brezhnev-Gorbachev era and its role in the collapse
of the Soviet Union are examined in "Material Forces that Turn Socialism into
Capitalism" at
https://www.idcommunism.com/2023/04/material-forces-that-turn-socialism-into-capitalism.html.
It argues from the data –
What is the historical research on the percentage of the population who were
one or another gender identity and one or another sexual preference? And how it
broke out by class and by the stage of the mode of production? Probably
difficult questions to answer with solid evidence, but any
On Mon, Mar 4, 2024 at 08:35 PM, Anthony Boynton wrote:
>
> the Supreme Court's majority does not represent the majority of the ruling
> class.
While the Supreme Court today has a Trumpist majority, the liberal minority
agreed to the ruling. (They dissented on a larger issue that the majority
On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 06:55 PM, hari kumar wrote:
>
> ... a new site that some friends and I have started.
Introducing your new website, you write, "Marxist-Leninists remain divided into
two camps based on whether or not the Peoples’ Republic of China (PRC)
established socialism." This issue
"Nativist resistance to cheap immigrant labour" - ha. The shame of pwogwessives
like Marv and most of the left is that for 25 years they have ignored what
globalization has done to U.S. workers. When you brand attention to the problem
of cheap immigrant labor as "nativist resistance," you put
In fairness it must be noted that Joti Brar, who is not the brightest
"anti-imperialist," (
https://newworker.us/international/joti-brars-tantrum-about-the-imperialist-pyramid/
) apparently left the Workers Party in Nov. 2022. See
Marv is caught in the binary of two propaganda mills. He retails the Russian
side in this conflict, and he grasps at anything to discount the Western side.
Anything rather than proceed from reasonably settled facts, among which are the
economic and strategic interests of both sides.
On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 04:55 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> Economists bemoaned the slowing of economic growth from the preceding
> postwar decades on so-called "wage push" inflation caused by the unions.
The term stagflation, as Mark notes, was descriptive; it did not bake in the
cause. It was
Capitalism after industrialization is unable to achieve vigorous, profitable
accumulation in combination with an improving standard of living. During past
boom periods, significant gains in relative mass prosperity were won. That is
no longer possible. Sure, technology keeps advancing. The
On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 09:45 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> industry began outsourcing work to China following Deng's mid-70's
> "opening up"
A plain mis-statement of fact. Deng began the restoration of capitalism in
1978, two years after Mao Zedong died. He and his mafia spent the 1980s
On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 01:35 PM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> The 70's experienced a retreat in labor action that never recovered. It's
> arguable that it was the 1980's when the drop in labor actions never
> recovered (unlike after the 1959 steel strike), but why argue about it?
There are reasons
A "prevailing opinion on the international Marxist left" does not exist. The
Ukraine war has opened a deep divide. Someone is looking into a mirror and
thinks he is looking into a telescope.
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