Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-15 Thread James Records
I just spent some time on this and got a working image for the Watchguard Firebox X 500-2500 platforms. For more info about it, I'm keeping track of everything in a forum here: http://www.thewaffle.org/Forum/viewforum.php?f=6st=0sk=tsd=dstart=0 While I was at it, I pulled out an old Watchguard

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-14 Thread secucatcher
On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 3:08 PM, James Records [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Grab a Watchguard Firebox X off of ebay, they have 6 interfaces, and you can get them pretty cheap, some of the bigger ones have more, onboard crypto, perfect for building openbsd firewalls... you can run off a CF...

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread Marco Fretz
Claudio Jeker wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 01:14:53PM +0200, Marco Fretz wrote: Johan Beisser wrote: On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, phoenixcomm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gang, well heres my 3 cents, first why use a stupid PC (any os) for routing.. REALY BAD jue,jue brake down and

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread saqmaster
Sorry to hijack this thread slightly, but it's related I think: I'm looking to create an OpenBSD firewall/router for home. It's going to need to support two ADSL (UK, 8mbit) lines with PPPoA. And then a bunch (4) of f/eth ports, which is simple enough. Could anyone recommend any low-profile pci

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread Henning Brauer
* Marco Fretz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-13 09:31]: Ok, ok. What I said was what Cisco says as in, lies, lies, lies. They call it marketing. Cisco hardware is much more reliable than PCs I can't second that. Cisco and good PC hardware are en par ime. The whole system, Cisco + IOS vs PC-Server

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread ropers
* Marco Fretz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-13 09:31]: If you have the money buy Cisco Routers (or from similar vendors), if you have time and want to save some money use OpenBSD. 2008/8/13 Henning Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: no. If you have the money get somebody clueful to set your OpenBSD

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread Marco Fretz
Henning Brauer wrote: * Marco Fretz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-13 09:31]: Ok, ok. What I said was what Cisco says as in, lies, lies, lies. They call it marketing. Cisco hardware is much more reliable than PCs I can't second that. Cisco and good PC hardware are en par ime. The whole

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread Diana Eichert
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, ropers wrote: SNIP NB: According to Wikipedia, Juniper's JUNOS OS is FreeBSD-derived. In other words, it ultimately evolved from the same ancestor OpenBSD evolved from. --ropers So it runs some BSD derivative on it's management card, make no difference on how well the

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread James Records
I just got some screenshots of the project up, if you care to take a look: http://www.thewaffle.org/screenshots.html There is also a working copy of the VMware image of the project availible for download, see the following for brief instructions on how to setup the image:

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-13 Thread ropers
2008/8/13 James Records [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I just got some screenshots of the project up, if you care to take a look: http://www.thewaffle.org/screenshots.html snip pardon the site design, not my forte, hopefully getting someone else to build me something better soon. It's nicer to look at

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Marco Fretz
Johan Beisser wrote: On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, phoenixcomm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gang, well heres my 3 cents, first why use a stupid PC (any os) for routing.. REALY BAD jue,jue brake down and buy a old Cisco 7200, 7500, 3600 they are all very good routers, I used a 7500 for a

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Ryan McBride
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 01:14:53PM +0200, Marco Fretz wrote: How odd. I know at least one site that runs all of their BGP off of OpenBGP on OpenBSD boxes that are dedicated as routers. In all cases, these systems outperform the equivalent Cisco hardware for a fraction of the cost. Forget

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Claudio Jeker
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 01:14:53PM +0200, Marco Fretz wrote: Johan Beisser wrote: On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, phoenixcomm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gang, well heres my 3 cents, first why use a stupid PC (any os) for routing.. REALY BAD jue,jue brake down and buy a old Cisco 7200,

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Paul de Weerd
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 01:14:53PM +0200, Marco Fretz wrote: well heres my 3 cents, first why use a stupid PC (any os) for routing.. REALY BAD jue,jue brake down and buy a old Cisco 7200, 7500, 3600 they are all very good routers, I used a 7500 for a while and now use a 3640 i use pf as

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Henning Brauer
* Marco Fretz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-11 13:19]: Forget this. Cisco does CEF (cisco express forwarding) that's stream forwarding in hardware. 1) that is best case. some traffic has to go to the main cpu. attackers can provole that and easily overload their tiny host cpus. 2) only the big

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Diana Eichert
My day job lets me play with fucking expensive ones, I love that statement Claudio. If you want commercial hardware that handles large PPS rates you get purpose built hardware, not a Cisco router. I also support 100M feeds going through Soekris 5501 running OpenBSD and they perform very well.

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-11 Thread Siegbert Marschall
Hi, Forget this. Cisco does CEF (cisco express forwarding) that's stream forwarding in hardware. You don't have a chance to reach this PPS with a yeah, expect that it doesn't route everything and in the moment it falls back to cpu your router is dead. then there I saw all kind of funny and

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Mon, 14.07.2008 at 12:44:15 +0200, Henning Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bigger HP Procurve switches are ok. Some shit, as usual, but all in all very usable. what do you mean by bigger? Routers: OpenBSD, what else? Erm, and on the hardware side, please? Kind regards, --Toni++

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread Henning Brauer
* Toni Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-08-08 19:07]: Hi, On Mon, 14.07.2008 at 12:44:15 +0200, Henning Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bigger HP Procurve switches are ok. Some shit, as usual, but all in all very usable. what do you mean by bigger? 5300XL specifically. The other

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread phoenixcomm
MartC-n Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Currently we are buying R200s from Dell, but we have the 4 NIC limitation. We could tell Dell to install a quad port NIC (in addition to the two-port onboard

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread James Records
Grab a Watchguard Firebox X off of ebay, they have 6 interfaces, and you can get them pretty cheap, some of the bigger ones have more, onboard crypto, perfect for building openbsd firewalls... you can run off a CF... I'm putting together a project that uses openbsd on these boxes. If you have

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread Johan Beisser
On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, phoenixcomm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gang, well heres my 3 cents, first why use a stupid PC (any os) for routing.. REALY BAD jue,jue brake down and buy a old Cisco 7200, 7500, 3600 they are all very good routers, I used a 7500 for a while and now use a

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread Claudio Jeker
On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 02:59:02PM -0700, phoenixcomm wrote: MartC-n Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Currently we are buying R200s from Dell, but we have the 4 NIC limitation. We could tell

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread patric conant
You strongly overestimate the value of your comments (3 cents), it seems like there are many places more appropriate than this one for you to suggest middle-of-the-road hardware running a proprietary OS that has among the worst security records in the industry. On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:59 PM,

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread list-obsd-misc
On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 06:54:05PM -0500, patric conant wrote: You strongly overestimate the value of your comments (3 cents), it seems like there are many places more appropriate than this one for you to suggest middle-of-the-road hardware running a proprietary OS that has among the worst

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-08-08 Thread list-obsd-misc
So you expect additional reliability from stacking ebayed cisco equipment with OpenBSD bridges behind them, as the original poster mentioned, and cost effectiveness by buying used cisco equipment and paying for relicensing so that you can get updates, compared to setting up OpenBSD boxes as

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-16 Thread Russell Howe
Claer wrote, sometime around 15/07/08 07:31: On Mon, Jul 14 2008 at 28:15, Mart?n Coco wrote: Thanks! Have you tried the quad nics on those Dells? We do have a couple of R200s, 860s and 850s running with 2 dual port cards no problem, but we have never tried the quad ports. Hello, I do

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-15 Thread Claer
On Mon, Jul 14 2008 at 28:15, Mart?n Coco wrote: Thanks! Have you tried the quad nics on those Dells? We do have a couple of R200s, 860s and 850s running with 2 dual port cards no problem, but we have never tried the quad ports. Hello, I do have around 20 Dell 860 and R200 with 2 cards

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-14 Thread Henning Brauer
* Curt Micol [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-13 16:20]: On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Henning Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which is exactly the point. there are too many misconfigured VLAN setups out there, and some vendors (namely: cisco) have fucked up defaults. cisco (at least: used to,

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-14 Thread Torsten Frost
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Martmn Coco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Currently we are buying R200s from Dell, but we have the 4 NIC limitation. We could tell Dell to install a quad

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-14 Thread Martín Coco
Thanks! Have you tried the quad nics on those Dells? We do have a couple of R200s, 860s and 850s running with 2 dual port cards no problem, but we have never tried the quad ports. Torsten Frost escribis: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Martmn Coco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi misc, I'm

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-14 Thread Martín Coco
First of all, thanks to all of you that have replied. I've thought of adding VLANs, and will be doing it in the future maybe, but in our current situation, that's not possible; not all the switches support this option, and there's still some concern about security implications (specially in

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-14 Thread Torsten Frost
Never done the quad in my maxchines. I havent heard anyone getting fired over it either though. A quick check on dells web indicates you have two pci-e slots in those r200s, why not get two dual nics. On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Martmn Coco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks! Have you tried

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-13 Thread Henning Brauer
* Gordon Grieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-12 15:27]: [ VLANs ] just work well when configured properly. which is exactly the point. there are too many misconfigured VLAN setups out there, and some vendors (namely: cisco) have fucked up defaults. cisco (at least: used to, not sure about the

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-13 Thread Curt Micol
On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Henning Brauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which is exactly the point. there are too many misconfigured VLAN setups out there, and some vendors (namely: cisco) have fucked up defaults. cisco (at least: used to, not sure about the current status, I long abondoned

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-12 Thread Jason George
I knew it was a matter of time before the vlan insecurity bullshit hit the fan. RTFA. Who says anything about blindly trusting switches? If you can't correctly configure VLANs on your switches, and filter on vlan(4) interfaces in PF, you shouldn't be administering production networks.

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-12 Thread Henning Brauer
* Martmn Coco [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-12 00:33]: I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. there is a 1u supermicro that has 4 onboard, on PCIe and PCI-X each. gives 12 ems in 1U. -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-12 Thread Gordon Grieder
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:24:46AM -0400, Jason Dixon wrote: I knew it was a matter of time before the vlan insecurity bullshit hit the fan. RTFA. Who says anything about blindly trusting switches? If you can't correctly configure VLANs on your switches, and filter on vlan(4) interfaces in

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-12 Thread Gordon Grieder
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 08:24:52AM -0500, Gordon Grieder wrote: Fast forward and we've got these 2960G's everywhere, a couple of 3750G's doing the L3 work and feeding to the hardware out to the world. Nearly 20 VLANs going through various trunks (single gig and etherchannel). The stuff just

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-12 Thread Jacob Yocom-Piatt
Martmn Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Currently we are buying R200s from Dell, but we have the 4 NIC limitation. We could tell Dell to install a quad port NIC (in addition to the two-port onboard

Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Martín Coco
Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Currently we are buying R200s from Dell, but we have the 4 NIC limitation. We could tell Dell to install a quad port NIC (in addition to the two-port onboard card), but I haven't

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Jason Dixon
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 06:47:13PM -0300, Mart?n Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Currently we are buying R200s from Dell, but we have the 4 NIC limitation. We could tell Dell to install a quad port

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Geoff Steckel
Jason Dixon wrote: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 06:47:13PM -0300, Mart?n Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Why could you possibly need 6 physical interfaces? Even if you have a failover pair of firewalls

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Jason Dixon
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:10:04PM -0400, Geoff Steckel wrote: Jason Dixon wrote: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 06:47:13PM -0300, Mart?n Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four NICs. Why could you possibly need 6

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Giancarlo Razzolini
Jason Dixon escreveu: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:10:04PM -0400, Geoff Steckel wrote: Jason Dixon wrote: On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 06:47:13PM -0300, Mart?n Coco wrote: Hi misc, I'm currently looking for hardware alternatives for firewalls that should have more than four

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Jason Dixon
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 01:09:40AM -0300, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote: Wow... I've used 5 interfaces also, but for different internet links. Try do multi routing when you have lot's of different ip's of different ranges on the same if. Your pf rules will be a mess and, in some cases, it

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Geoff Steckel
I knew it was a matter of time before the vlan insecurity bullshit hit the fan. RTFA. Who says anything about blindly trusting switches? If you can't correctly configure VLANs on your switches, and filter on vlan(4) interfaces in PF, you shouldn't be administering production networks. There's

Re: Hardware recommendation for firewalls (more than 4 NICs)

2008-07-11 Thread Jason Dixon
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:35:46AM -0400, Geoff Steckel wrote: I knew it was a matter of time before the vlan insecurity bullshit hit the fan. RTFA. Who says anything about blindly trusting switches? If you can't correctly configure VLANs on your switches, and filter on vlan(4) interfaces