Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Choice of Programming language is totally up to you :) As for security SSL shouldnt be your only protection and all authorization/authentication will have to be implemented in the internal service. On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 7:19 AM Tom Browder wrote: > On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 2:03 PM Mithun

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 2:03 PM Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > Your external facing apache instance would do the SSL part and use mod_proxy > to redirect the request to another instance of apache which implements the > actual functionality. Just remember the second instance needs to run on a >

Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Can you just shut up and unsubscribe from a Perl mailing list? On Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 4:24 PM derrick wrote: > Why PERL at all anyway? Dump PERL. >

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

desired effect – and Apache >> can even tell the client how long you need to wait before you send another >> connection. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* John Dunlap >> *Sent:* 22 December 2020 13:35 >> *To:* Vincent Veyron >> *Cc:* mod_per

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

how long you need to wait before you send another > connection. > > > > > > *From:* John Dunlap > *Sent:* 22 December 2020 13:35 > *To:* Vincent Veyron > *Cc:* mod_perl list > *Subject:* Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] > > > &

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] mod_perl is horribly inefficient because prefork is inefficient and because each request is single threaded. In addition to this, mod_perl also cannot provide websockets which are essential in a modern application. On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 1:26 AM

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Forking is not inefficient unless you work on Windows. Threads are more complicated to code for - thread safe coding is a thing. Agreed web sockets are lacking but they are not essential in all modern application. I think we have discussed this topic enough and nothing new is being shared on the

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

mod_perl is horribly inefficient because prefork is inefficient and because each request is single threaded. In addition to this, mod_perl also cannot provide websockets which are essential in a modern application. On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 1:26 AM Vincent Veyron wrote: > > [You forgot to cc the

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

bject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [You forgot to cc the list ] On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 23:16:03 -0500 John Dunlap wrote: > We run 20 customers on a single box and our database has approximately > 500 tables. We run hundreds or thousands of queries per second.

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Sent: 20 December 2020 22:29 To: mod_perl list Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] Running individual functions in independent threads can't be a solution for performance optimization - at least I have never heard such a thing, maybe others can pitch in. On Sun

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Making a wild guess here - most RDBMS won't like it if you make thousands of queries per second across 500 tables every second. Can this be done - yes but most setup's aren't tuned to be able to handle such a scenario. If I was doing something like this I can imagine quite a few places which

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

[You forgot to cc the list ] On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 23:16:03 -0500 John Dunlap wrote: > We run 20 customers on a single box and our database has approximately 500 > tables. We run hundreds or thousands of queries per second. > 500 tables is a lot more than what I typically handle. I'm sure it

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

[don't know why I'm seeing only parts of this thread, I did not get the original messages for some reason] > >> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 2:28 PM John Dunlap wrote: > >> > >>> It's extremely inefficient by comparison. We host our application on > >>> beefy servers with 32 cores and 64G of ram

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 14:03:35 -0600 Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > As for your Lets Encrypt certificate - autorenewal isnt a mod_perl thing > rather you do have to place a script in some sort of scheduler. I use Lets Encrypt on Debian, there is no need to place a script; certificates are being

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

ble to add functionality easily at any stage in the request process, >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> path translation, AAA stages, pre-processing, to post-processing and >>>>>>>> logging, and also to interact with other languages at any stage - e.

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

; post-processing around a script written in >>>>>> another >>>>>> language (e.g. PHP, Java) or produced by another webserver integrated by >>>>>> mod_proxy. >>>>>> >>>>>> It isn't really a framework though like dancer or moj

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Your external facing apache instance would do the SSL part and use mod_proxy to redirect the request to another instance of apache which implements the actual functionality. Just remember the second instance needs to run on a different port and that it doesnt have to talk to the outside world.

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 11:29 Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > Just curious where exactly is the challenge in this setup ? It can't be in > apache supporting real certificates - neither can it be in setting up > reverse proxy internally... > The challenge to me is how exactly to code the reverse

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

wn advantages and disadvantages. >>>> >>>> You would to some extent have to roll your own code to produce the >>>> pages themselves although there are libraries out there to do lots of it. >>>> >>>> We have an in house library whose embryonic

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

tten over 20 >> years ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works >> strong... >> >> James >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Wesley Peng >> Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43 >> To: modperl@perl.apache.org >> Subject: su

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

years and works > strong... > > James > > -----Original Message- > From: Wesley Peng > Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43 > To: modperl@perl.apache.org > Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] > > greetings, > > My team use all of p

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Just curious where exactly is the challenge in this setup ? It can't be in apache supporting real certificates - neither can it be in setting up reverse proxy internally... On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM Tom Browder wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 09:33 Steven Lembark wrote: > >> On

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 09:33 Steven Lembark wrote: > On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 18:05:28 -0700 > jbiskofski wrote: > > > I had a hard time accepting this was a good configuration because for > > 20 years I had thought of webservers as big giant compiled systems > > (apache), but apparently you can now

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

of (closely related) entries) -Original Message- From: Steven Lembark Sent: 20 December 2020 15:31 To: modperl@perl.apache.org Cc: lemb...@wrkhors.com Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 19:59:01 -0500 Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > The quest

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 18:05:28 -0700 jbiskofski wrote: > I had a hard time accepting this was a good configuration because for > 20 years I had thought of webservers as big giant compiled systems > (apache), but apparently you can now create something just as fast in > Perl. And a helluva lot

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 19:59:01 -0500 Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being > shared which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water. (Sorry for being late on this...) There are a variety of servers using Plack which can handle heavy

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On 04.08.2020 22:48, Mark Blackman wrote: [...] the web server handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP requests. I'll agree to that, up to a point. If you just want to write web

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Mojo is good but it is specifically for fast non blocking services. If you are trying to pull up old monolithic applications into the service based world it might take significant rewrite or you use apache/mod_perl :) On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM jbiskofski wrote: > Mod Perl is awesome. That

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

jbiskofski wrote: Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman yes starman is good. we use it for rest-api service, the app code is dancer, whose backend server is starman. if we need more concurrent handlers, a simple front-proxy like nginx would be deployed.

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Haha my service is meant to be a blackbox - of course it talks to three different REST services :) On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Ruben Safir wrote: > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 07:59:01PM -0500, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 07:59:01PM -0500, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared > which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water. > Maybe JBoss really there is none. mod_perl turns apache into an application server, and

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Mod Perl is awesome. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack. Google: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all parts of the HTTP protocol, but obviously not to modify apache configuration. Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman Even faster,

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Wed, Aug 05, 2020 at 10:32:39AM +1000, dc...@prosentient.com.au wrote: > I don't really see the utility of this thread, since these are just circular > arguments based primarily on opinion, and no one is going to convince > someone else that their opinion is wrong. > > That said, I'll just

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water. On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir wrote: > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote: > > > > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Just because the language lets you to relax doesn't mean you shouldn't apply strict validation of all data being worked on :) I don't care about it in a two line cron job but more critical components spend a lot of time on data validation - I am pretty much working in paranoid mode. If you use

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote: > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ? > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman > > wrote: > >

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Hi Mark Blackman wrote: mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known means. for example? thank you.

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Joseph He wrote: My company uses Perl for web development. It handles real time payment transactions without any problem. Good software is made by the people not by the language. Maybe I am weak on this point, but how perl handle types more strictly? for example, 123 + '456' this is

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

c: modperl@perl.apache.org Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 05:04:50PM +0200, André Warnier (tomcat/perl) wrote: > On 04.08.2020 11:31, paul trader wrote: > >On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 07:36, James Smith opined: > > > >JS:Others will di

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Cc: Joseph He ; James Smith ; John Dunlap ; Wesley Peng ; mod_perl list Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:55, Mithun Bhattacharya mailto:mit...@gmail.com>> wrote: Ours is a REST based service so every request has busi

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

I am not sure I understand - by the time we have decided we need perl why not go for Apache and even consider an alternate ? The mod_perl setup can't be the only criteria - we created a sample service and demonstrated it to everyone in the team what needs to happen and now we have services

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

> On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:55, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > Ours is a REST based service so every request has business logic and an > apache+mod_perl instance actually has a better segregation of the webserver > and Perl code - we don't worry about handling the HTTP request and managing >

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Ours is a REST based service so every request has business logic and an apache+mod_perl instance actually has a better segregation of the webserver and Perl code - we don't worry about handling the HTTP request and managing children. We trust Apache will do the right thing and if something breaks

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

> On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ? > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman > wrote: > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya > >

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ? On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman wrote: > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient utilization of > resources - this is important when

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

> On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient utilization of > resources - this is important when fast response time and scalability is > important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a mystery box > either

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Aug 4, 2020 at 10:28 AM James Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* John Dunlap > > *Sent:* 04 August 2020 15:30 > > *To:* Wesley Peng > > *Cc:* mod_perl list > > *Subject:* Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [E

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 05:04:50PM +0200, André Warnier (tomcat/perl) wrote: > On 04.08.2020 11:31, paul trader wrote: > >On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 07:36, James Smith opined: > > > >JS:Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl > >JS:- but only if you use it's full power -

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has to happen and

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

ut any problem. Good software is made by the people not > by the language. > > Joseph > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:28 AM James Smith wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> *From:* John Dunlap >> *Sent:* 04 August 2020 15:30 >> *To:* Wesley Peng >

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

> On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:42, Joseph He wrote: > > My company uses Perl for web development. It handles real time payment > transactions without any problem. Good software is made by the people not by > the language. > Agreed, Perl is still fine for server-side work. mod_perl adds less value

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

August 2020 15:30 > *To:* Wesley Peng > *Cc:* mod_perl list > *Subject:* Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] > > > > The fundamental and, in my opinion, fatal flaws of mod_per are as follows: > > > 1) Concurrency. mod_perl is pretty close to forced to use

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

From: John Dunlap Sent: 04 August 2020 15:30 To: Wesley Peng Cc: mod_perl list Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] The fundamental and, in my opinion, fatal flaws of mod_per are as follows: > 1) Concurrency. mod_perl is pretty close to forced to

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On 04.08.2020 11:31, paul trader wrote: On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 07:36, James Smith opined: JS:Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl JS:- but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special JS:sort of mind set to use - but that can be said for

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language

The fundamental and, in my opinion, fatal flaws of mod_per are as follows: 1) Concurrency. mod_perl is pretty close to forced to use mpm_prefork because very few perl dependencies are thread safe. 2) mod_perl cannot provide web sockets. Due to these reasons, my organization has started looking at

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 07:36, James Smith opined: JS:Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl JS:- but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special JS:sort of mind set to use - but that can be said for any language. i will second this motion.

AW: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

09:37 An: Wesley Peng ; modperl@perl.apache.org Betreff: RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] Perl is a great solution for web development. Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl - but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

Hello, James Smith wrote: : Perl is a great solution for web development. : : Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl : - but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special : sort of mind set to use - but that can be said for any

RE: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]

ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works strong... James -Original Message- From: Wesley Peng Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43 To: modperl@perl.apache.org Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] greetings, My team use all of perl, ruby, python

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language

What about dancer? On Tue, 4 Aug 2020, 12:10 Rolf Schaufelberger, wrote: > I would not consider mod_perl for new projects, but instead highly > recommend using mojolicious https://mojolicious.org/ > > > Am 04.08.2020 um 07:42 schrieb Wesley Peng : > > greetings, > > My team use all of perl,

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language

I would not consider mod_perl for new projects, but instead highly recommend using mojolicious https://mojolicious.org/ > Am 04.08.2020 um 07:42 schrieb Wesley Peng : > > greetings, > > My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff. > perl is stronger

Re: suggestions for perl as web development language

I think all languages have lost the battle to nodejs. Most popular frameworks are angular and react - it is hard to beat them when everyone seems to be able to throw out a single page application without much effort. On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 12:43 AM Wesley Peng wrote: > greetings, > > My team use

suggestions for perl as web development language

greetings, My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff. perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc. But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others. It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right people to do the webdev job