Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: POTS Ending (Re: Operation Ghost Click)
On 04-May-12 04:11, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Curious to know if naked DSL (DSL without dialtone POTS link) is common
in North America?
The availability of naked DSL varies from state to state within the US
Premature and very dangerous move, the public is at great risk, only
Sat phones seem to work when there is a natural disaster. Cell phones
for the most part can't even connect to 911
tohoku quake
o land voice phones did not work
o mobile phone voice did not work
o mobile phone text
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:
Premature and very dangerous move, the public is at great risk, only
Sat phones seem to work when there is a natural disaster. Cell phones
for the most part can't even connect to 911
tohoku quake
o land voice phones did
Premature and very dangerous move, the public is at great risk, only
Sat phones seem to work when there is a natural disaster. Cell phones
for the most part can't even connect to 911
tohoku quake
o land voice phones did not work
o mobile phone voice did not work
o mobile phone text
You wrote 0 or o before everything and I felt you mean zero.
Never mind. Thanks!
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote:
Premature and very dangerous move, the public is at great risk, only
Sat phones seem to work when there is a natural disaster. Cell phones
for
: Operation Ghost Click)
Premature and very dangerous move, the public is at great risk, only Sat phones
seem
to work when there is a natural disaster. Cell phones for the most part can't
even connect
to 911
-henry
From: Stephen Sprunk step...@sprunk.org
717.506.4358
Email ralph.bra...@pateam.com mailto:ralph.bra...@pateam.com
5095 Ritter Rd
Mechanicsburg PA 17055
From: Anurag Bhatia [mailto:m...@anuragbhatia.com]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 5:12 AM
To: Brandt, Ralph
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: POTS Ending (Re: Operation Ghost Click)
Curious
Brandt, Ralph wrote:
I am not sure who uses DSL here. I have two people I know who use it,
both are dissatisfied and if they had an alternative it woud not be.
It is slow, unreliable compared to cable.
That's a rather bold statement which I find hard to believe. Do you have
any data to
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-16/landline-service-becoming-obsolete/54321184/1
Indiana is doing away with its requirement that the incumbent LECs
supply voice service to rural areas. Indiana also used
On 2012-05-04, at 09:11, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Curious to know if naked DSL (DSL without dialtone POTS link) is common
in North America?
It's common in Bell Canada's service region in Ontario and Québec. They still
provide dial tone on each pair, though, to help techs avoid re-using
On 2012-05-04, at 09:11, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Curious to know if naked DSL (DSL without dialtone POTS link) is common
in North America?
Very common for business (retail, etc.) and I have it at home. We often
call it a dry-loop. No battery or dial tone is common. Some LECs do
deliver with
On 04-May-12 04:11, Anurag Bhatia wrote:
Curious to know if naked DSL (DSL without dialtone POTS link) is common
in North America?
The availability of naked DSL varies from state to state within the US,
depending on how successful the telcos have been at bribing^Wlobbying
the various state
, 2012 11:29 PM
To: Frank Bulk
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: POTS Ending (Re: Operation Ghost Click)
On May 2, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
Many states have regulations regarding how long dial tone needs to
last
during a power outage. Iowa's PUC (the IUB) requires at least two
hours
. Hopefully it will not be on
VOIP and the internet is down.
Ralph Brandt
-Original Message-
From: Jared Mauch [mailto:ja...@puck.nether.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:15 PM
To: Eric Wieling
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
On May 2, 2012, at 3
Subject: Re: VoIP/Mobile Codecs (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
Sean Harlow wrote:
Originally, you said VoIP and cellular used bad codecs.
Yeah, I overlooked that important detail, sorry.
The cellular world works with less bandwidth and more loss than the VoIP
world usually deals with, so while
, 2012 8:25 PM
To: NANOG
Subject: Re: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
- Original Message -
From: Jeroen van Aart jer...@mompl.net
I don't doubt it. However my practical experience is such that 100% of
the time (I lost count after 20 or so, in a decade) I experienced a
power
Perhaps cell towers can be made to fail sooner, and enter some
emergency mode where only 911 calls get service.
--
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.
Bulk
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: POTS Ending (Re: Operation Ghost Click)
On May 2, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
Many states have regulations regarding how long dial tone needs to
last
during a power outage. Iowa's PUC (the IUB) requires at least two
hours of
backup power. We design ours
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Tei oscar.vi...@gmail.com wrote:
** Perhaps cell towers can be made to fail sooner, and enter some
** emergency mode where only 911 calls get service.
**
**
**
** --
Don't cell companies already provide over-ride codes to various
federal agencies to obtain
: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:15 PM
To: Eric Wieling
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
On May 2, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
I doubt the g729 or GSM codecs used by VoIP and Cell phones can
compare to a POTS line.
This is why many people use
On May 3, 2012, at 12:26, Mike Hale wrote:
Don't cell companies already provide over-ride codes to various
federal agencies to obtain emergency priority access to cell service?
That would be the Nationwide Wireless Priority Service. Authorized users can
dial *272destination to get priority
The problem with this is, MOST 911 CALLS ARE CELLULAR or soon will be.
Ralph Brandt
PA
-Original Message-
From: Tei [mailto:oscar.vi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:15 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
Perhaps cell towers
- Original Message -
From: Ralph Brandt ralph.bra...@pateam.com
The problem with this is, MOST 911 CALLS ARE CELLULAR or soon will be.
{citation-needed}
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com
Designer The
Ghost Click)
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Tei oscar.vi...@gmail.com wrote:
** Perhaps cell towers can be made to fail sooner, and enter some
** emergency mode where only 911 calls get service.
**
**
**
** --
Don't cell companies already provide over-ride codes to various
federal agencies to obtain
-Original Message-
From: Mike Hale [mailto:eyeronic.des...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:32 PM
To: Brandt, Ralph
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
That's precisely where SatCom enters the picture. Cell companies
aren't ever going to undersell
ralph.bra...@pateam.com
5095 Ritter Rd
Mechanicsburg PA 17055
-Original Message-
From: Sean Harlow [mailto:s...@seanharlow.info]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:36 PM
To: Mike Hale
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
On May 3, 2012, at 12:26, Mike Hale wrote
On May 3, 2012, at 14:19, Jay Ashworth wrote:
{citation-needed}
I don't have any numbers to offer, but given the near universality of cellular
phones these days among the adult population I could easily see a majority
going for cellular. Car accidents, house fires, and a lot of other types
: Re: VoIP vs POTS (was Re: Operation Ghost Click)
That's precisely where SatCom enters the picture. Cell companies
aren't ever going to undersell their bandwidth...that simply isn't
profitable. SatCom is one of the best ways to plan for communications
outages during times of crisis
Hey Jason, I'm going to put you on the spot with a crazy idea.
Many customers of the major internet providers also have other
services from them, like TV and Phone. Perhaps expanding the notice
to those areas would be useful? Turn on your cable box and get a
notice, or pick up the phone and get
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:14:40PM -0500, A. Pishdadi wrote:
At some point in like 10 years when all the computer illiterate people are
gone there will be no more excuses for not being educated on malware and
viruses.
The non-techies I know would consider switching from IE to Firefox a
major
Livingood, Jason wrote:
you may just have nuked their 911 capability.
Depending on your internet connection to be able to dial 911 is a bit
foolhardy, to put it nicely. It pays off to have a phone that's only
powered through the phone line itself, for emergencies (and your
everyday home
On Wed, 02 May 2012 12:13:56 -0700, Jeroen van Aart said:
Livingood, Jason wrote:
you may just have nuked their 911 capability.
Actually, I said that, not Jason. Jason just used mail software that *can't get
quoting right* to reply to my message, so your quote of his message got the
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Jeroen van Aart jer...@mompl.net wrote:
Livingood, Jason wrote:
you may just have nuked their 911 capability.
Depending on your internet connection to be able to dial 911 is a bit
chuckle
foolhardy, to put it nicely. It pays off to have a phone that's only
I doubt the g729 or GSM codecs used by VoIP and Cell phones can compare to a
POTS line.
-Original Message-
From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.li...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:43 PM
To: Jeroen van Aart
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Operation Ghost Click
wow, 1990
valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
Actually, I said that, not Jason. Jason just used mail software that *can't get
quoting right* to reply to my message, so your quote of his message got the
attribution wrong.
Sorry, I don't keep track of who is unable to quote properly. But I do
always try to
.
-Original Message-
From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.li...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:43 PM
To: Jeroen van Aart
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Operation Ghost Click
wow, 1990 much? are you actually just trolling today perhaps?
Christopher Morrow wrote:
wow, 1990 much? are you actually just trolling today perhaps?
No, what is wrong with using a land line, a rotary phone and enjoying a
reliable service? Plus a superior audio quality as opposed to the
compressed to hell quality of mobile phones.
Not withstanding
Once upon a time, Jeroen van Aart jer...@mompl.net said:
Christopher Morrow wrote:
wow, 1990 much? are you actually just trolling today perhaps?
No, what is wrong with using a land line, a rotary phone and enjoying a
reliable service? Plus a superior audio quality as opposed to the
Sean Harlow wrote:
Then you'll be happy to know that most VoIP phones default to and good VoIP providers
gladly support G.711, the exact same codec used in all digital trunks in the POTS
network. Also, an on-the-ball VoIP carrier will be pushing G.722 HD Voice
devices which offer about
On May 2, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Eric Wieling wrote:
I doubt the g729 or GSM codecs used by VoIP and Cell phones can compare to a
POTS line.
This is why many people use g711ulaw or other codec.
Personally I would not work with anyone that doesn't do g711ulaw (88.2kbit when
IP packet overhead
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Jeroen van Aart jer...@mompl.net said:
Not withstanding that, according to you, in some places the landlines
clipped the copper below the ground-level I believe that vast majority
of the country has working
On Wed, 02 May 2012 13:10:28 -0700, Jeroen van Aart said:
Technical specs aside I believe you are mistaken with regards to the
actual every day reality. My experience (and anyone else I talked to)
calling to and from mobile phones has been 100% a bad one with regards
to audio quality.
I look
On 5/2/12, Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net wrote:
Personally, I'm thinking of ditching my ISDN (gives clear dial tone at a
long-distance from the CO) for something like the Verizon Home Connect box.
Gives a few hours of built-in battery backup, but would fail once the tower
loses power
On May 2, 2012, at 16:10, Jeroen van Aart wrote:
Technical specs aside I believe you are mistaken with regards to the actual
every day reality. My experience (and anyone else I talked to) calling to and
from mobile phones has been 100% a bad one with regards to audio quality. I
know the
This device uses cellular only. Don't live in vz territory. Live in ATT pots
only land. No cable here either.
Jared Mauch
On May 2, 2012, at 5:33 PM, William Herrin b...@herrin.us wrote:
On 5/2/12, Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net wrote:
Personally, I'm thinking of ditching my ISDN (gives
Jared Mauch wrote:
Regarding landline service, this can fail for many of the common reasons it
does are the same reasons that IP service may fail. The failure modes can
depend on a variety of circumstances from the physical layer (e.g.: audible
static on the line) that cause your ear to
Sean Harlow wrote:
Originally, you said VoIP and cellular used bad codecs.
Yeah, I overlooked that important detail, sorry.
The cellular world works with less bandwidth and more loss than the VoIP world usually deals with, so while us VoIP guys sometimes use their codecs (GSM for example)
- Original Message -
From: Jeroen van Aart jer...@mompl.net
I don't doubt it. However my practical experience is such that 100% of
the time (I lost count after 20 or so, in a decade) I experienced a
power failure the phone would still work. I am sure I am not the only
one.
Sure.
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:20 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
It may not be the codec that sucks...
Yeah, it is. Sit on hold with some music that is at a low volume and
you'll hear part that turn into white noise at times. Mobile operators us
codecs that are tuned for human voice. Get sounds
02, 2012 3:03 PM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Operation Ghost Click
snip
Not so much. As has been pointed out here many times before, many
people now get POTS lines from remote cabinets that have limited battery
life and fail in a power outage lasting more than a few minutes.
--
Chris Adams cmad
Once upon a time, Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com said:
in the last 2 neighborhoods I've lived in... near/around ashburn, va
(home to verizon, mci, lots of telco/bell-shaped-heads) I've always
been serviced from a remote terminal, that has often failed when the
power has cycled...
On May 2, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
Many states have regulations regarding how long dial tone needs to last
during a power outage. Iowa's PUC (the IUB) requires at least two hours of
backup power. We design ours for eight hours.
One thing of note that I've been tracking is this:
On 4/26/12 5:47 PM, Paul Graydon p...@paulgraydon.co.uk wrote:
Based on conversations on this list a month or so ago, ISPs were
contacted with details of which of their IPs had compromised boxes
behind them, but it seems the consensus is that ISP were going to just
wait for users to phone support
On 4/26/12 10:03 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote:
And what about the millions of users unknowingly infected with
something else ??
(We have enough trouble isolating/remediating issues among our
relatively small user base, I'd hate to be facing a major ISP size
support/remediation
ISPs in the Netherlands have had a botnet treaty in effect since
2009, which calls for blocking, user notification, and inter-ISP
information sharing.
http://ripe59.ripe.net/presentations/huijbregts-botnet-convenant.pdf
On Tue, May 01, 2012 at 12:26:20PM +, Livingood, Jason wrote:
At Comcast we have done the following:
- Sent emails
- Send postal mail
- Left voicemail
- Used automated outbound calling
- Used increasingly persistent web browser notifications
This is a reply to you, but it's intended to
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:40:57 -0400, Rich Kulawiec said:
Why haven't you cut these obviously-infected systems off entirely?
There's quite likely multiple systems behind a NAT-ish router, and Comcast
doesn't have any real option but to nuke *all* the systems behind the router.
This can be a tad
On 5/1/12 3:19 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edumailto:valdis.kletni...@vt.edu
valdis.kletni...@vt.edumailto:valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:40:57 -0400, Rich Kulawiec said:
Why haven't you cut these obviously-infected systems off entirely?
There's quite likely multiple systems
In a message written on Tue, May 01, 2012 at 07:41:35PM +, Livingood, Jason
wrote:
All of this above! Plus, the remediation tools to clean up an infection are
insufficient to the task right now. Better tools are needed. (See also
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6561#section-5.4)
Hey
On 01/05/12 12:51 PM, Leo Bicknell wrote:
In a message written on Tue, May 01, 2012 at 07:41:35PM +, Livingood, Jason
wrote:
All of this above! Plus, the remediation tools to clean up an infection are
insufficient to the task right now. Better tools are needed. (See also
* Jeff Kell:
And what about the millions of users unknowingly infected with
something else ??
You have to start somewhere. I received a warning letter, and four or
five very organizations had to cooperate in new ways to make this
happen. This is certainly a welcome development, and
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:03:44PM -0400, Jeff Kell wrote:
And what about the millions of users unknowingly infected with
something else ??
s/millions/hundreds of millions/
We passed the 100M zombie/bot mark years ago and nothing has happened
in the interim that should/would cause the trend to
Please look at www.dcwg.org
Mike
From: Jeff Kell [jeff-k...@utc.edu]
Sent: 26 April 2012 22:03
To: Andrew Latham
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Operation Ghost Click
On 4/26/2012 5:44 PM, Andrew Latham wrote:
Yes its a major problem for the users
On 04/26/2012 05:00 PM, Andrew Latham wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Kyle Creytskyle.cre...@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/november/malware_110911/DNS-changer-malware.pdf
On Apr 26, 2012 5:48 PM, Leigh Porterleigh.por...@ukbroadband.com
wrote:
On 26 Apr 2012,
O'Reirdan, Michael wrote:
Please look at www.dcwg.org
Thanks all for the information.
It looks like the practical upshot is that computers that have been
infected and not yet fixed may loose the ability to resolve names into
IP addresses starting sometime after July 9, which is when the
If the user is stupid enough to be infected for that long I think it's a good
thing they get cut off from the net , should be a policy of all ISPs , If your
infected then you lose privilege to get online and thus you can't scan and
infect other idiots or become a ddos tool for the script
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Ameen Pishdadi apishd...@gmail.com wrote:
If the user is stupid enough to be infected for that long I think it's a good
thing they get cut off from the net , should be a policy of all ISPs , If
your infected then you lose privilege to get online and thus you
Nope there dead unfortunately but if they were alive I'd clean up there
machines maybe give them chrome books something idiot proof
Thanks,
Ameen Pishdadi
On Apr 27, 2012, at 8:15 PM, ryanL ryan.lan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Ameen Pishdadi apishd...@gmail.com
On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 19:35:51 -0500, Ameen Pishdadi said:
If the user is stupid enough to be infected for that long
And they'd know they were infected, how, exactly? (Think carefully
before answering that, and keep in mind that although *you* may
be the world's greatest IT specialist, the average
At some point in like 10 years when all the computer illiterate people are
gone there will be no more excuses for not being educated on malware and
viruses. While I understand the ISP doesn't want to possibly cut into there
profit margins they could easily put in place monitoring tools that can
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:55 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 21:39:20 -0500, you said:
3) Many times, there are multiple customer computers behind a NAT. Do you
really want the hassle of an irate user calling in because you just broke
the
dad's VPN to work, because
Excuse the horrible subject :-)
Anyone have anything insightful to say about it? Is it just lots of fuss
about nothing or is it an actual substantial problem?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/november/malware_110911
Update on March 12, 2012: To assist victims affected by the DNSChanger
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Jeroen van Aart jer...@mompl.net wrote:
Excuse the horrible subject :-)
Anyone have anything insightful to say about it? Is it just lots of fuss
about nothing or is it an actual substantial problem?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/november/malware_110911
On 26 Apr 2012, at 22:47, Andrew Latham
lath...@gmail.commailto:lath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Jeroen van Aart
jer...@mompl.netmailto:jer...@mompl.net wrote:
Yes its a major problem for the users unknowingly infected. To them
it will look like their Internet
On 04/26/2012 11:44 AM, Andrew Latham wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Jeroen van Aartjer...@mompl.net wrote:
Excuse the horrible subject :-)
Anyone have anything insightful to say about it? Is it just lots of fuss
about nothing or is it an actual substantial problem?
I suggest you reach out to Shadowserver or Team Cymru if you're a
netblock owner. They can provide daily reports of infected IPs.
Andy
Andrew Fried
andrew.fr...@gmail.com
On 4/26/12 5:50 PM, Leigh Porter wrote:
On 26 Apr 2012, at 22:47, Andrew Latham
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/november/malware_110911/DNS-changer-malware.pdf
On Apr 26, 2012 5:48 PM, Leigh Porter leigh.por...@ukbroadband.com
wrote:
On 26 Apr 2012, at 22:47, Andrew Latham lath...@gmail.commailto:
lath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Jeroen van
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Kyle Creyts kyle.cre...@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/november/malware_110911/DNS-changer-malware.pdf
On Apr 26, 2012 5:48 PM, Leigh Porter leigh.por...@ukbroadband.com
wrote:
On 26 Apr 2012, at 22:47, Andrew Latham
Thanks, Andrew. I was out and about, and couldn't remember the prefixes
off-hand. They should have been in that PDF, iirc
On Apr 26, 2012 6:01 PM, Andrew Latham lath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Kyle Creyts kyle.cre...@gmail.com
wrote:
]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:48 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Operation Ghost Click
On 04/26/2012 11:44 AM, Andrew Latham wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Jeroen van Aartjer...@mompl.net wrote:
Excuse the horrible subject :-)
Anyone have anything insightful to say about
On 4/26/2012 5:44 PM, Andrew Latham wrote:
Yes its a major problem for the users unknowingly infected. To them
it will look like their Internet connection is down. Expect ISPs to
field lots of support calls.
And what about the millions of users unknowingly infected with
something else ??
81 matches
Mail list logo
