at it can. Then
observe if the MUD file actually allows all those things.
Aside from the difficulty of getting vendors to produce MUD files *at all*, I
have no idea how SG13 plans to convince an IoT device to do all its things.
So my liason reply would be: "Sounds great. Please email m...@ietf.
Pascal Thubert via Datatracker wrote:
> use of ! : please review if all "!" in the document are really
> intended.
I have two. Do you think it's too many?
> Abstract
>Alos, this document << typo
thank for the typo list. I will post as -15 on Fr
that the "fykz2-1" is constant, or in anyway predictable enough
to put into a MUD file. (nice that it has "face:b00c" in the v6 though)
Maybe, all of the fbcdn.net fits into a single /64.
Well. In this case I see these IPs are from Telus where FB has a CDN node,
li
able? I'm thinking about work or university campuses, with bring your
own (IoT) device.
> There’s a significant
> disclosure difference when you have many names hosted at the same IP.
> Hence this should be called out as a privacy issue that some device
> manufacturers
, so please update the
> table accordingly. Thanks.
But, your PR seems to patch every single line of the table.
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independent implementations is possible.
So, a reason why I wrote that slight redundant text is so that the engineer
who is trying to get their marketing person to put the document out in a sane
place, would have a single place to point to.
But, if the WG feels that redundant, I can go with that.
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I understand now that the extensions attribute in RFC8520 can be used to add
modules. This is distinctly not-YANG.
I wonder if we should have done this for RFC8366bis?
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n example JSON
file along with some YANG that will validate it with yanglint?
The issue is that 8520 does not import (augment) from ol, so the new code is
not there.
If it *did* import from ol, then it would create a new namespace which wasn't
8520.
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table in -02 is broken.
I notice that in -01 the table seems constrained to 72 columns,but not in
-03. I am not certain how to fix this, or what happened.
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mohamed.boucad...@orange.com wrote:
> However, I checked
>
https://author-tools.ietf.org/api/iddiff?doc_1=draft-ietf-opsawg-pcaplinktype_2=https://IETF-OPSAWG-WG.github.io/draft-ietf-opsawg-pcap/draft-ietf-opsawg-pcaplinktype.txt
> and I'm afraid that your main copy override many
Eliot Lear wrote:
> On 22.04.2024 19:29, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> 0) Why is this document still kicking around the WG?
>> (Too bad it doesn't have the word "mud" in the filename.)
>>
>> 1) I find the title confusing.
>>
; Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
> ___
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
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when I edited RFC 9451:
The fact that you don't know what it means from the term means that we got
something wrong in the name in my opinion :-)
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wound up
with.
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ve definition, since
the overlay packets might go another route, and might get a different QoS
treatment.
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t; Section 9, last sentence: jargon? I'm not sure I know what this means,
and
> English is my (only) language.
Is it this sentence:
> There is therefore no significant flag day: MUD controllers may
> implement the new policy without significant concern about backwards
> com
ed).
Once adopted, please give it a sane filename.
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> Pick a single URL.
okay. Looks like second URL has died already.
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/
probably
> be good to say such use is NOT RECOMMENDED. But right now I think the
> draft is remiss in not evening point out that connectivity failures
> can easily result.
okay. I will think on how to address this.
I'll also stop here, and continue tomorrow.
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] Ne
CDN is a bunch of HTTP/FTP servers which just don't
have DNS names, because someone hacked the system together in an afternoon.
Let me think about how to rephrase that. Or maybe it's really just two
examples of the same thing, and as you say, it's not two reasons, but two
kinds of one reason.
Or may
Prefer DNS servers learnt from DHCP/Route
> Advertisements` but the text is only about DHCP.
> Btw, the exact wording is "Route*r* Advertisement" and a reference to RFC
8106
> could be useful.
fixed.
> Which are the reasons in `There are a number of reaso
t widely monitored in the
> industry (I could be wrong though, maybe people use other methods).
I'd sure like to monitor it more for my limited set of equipment, if only to
see if there are unexpected spikes.
Like, do gbps L2 broadcast loops (no STP on that device) consume more power?
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y do it, then they set some defaults and arrange backups)
It sounds like you've become a BOF co-chair.
Was that intended?
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.
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Looks like this might also contain some xml2rfc version based changes, e.g.:
as s3.amazonaws.com). vs as "s3.example.com"
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ocal access, and it could specify
access to the update server. That is not done by DNS exactly, and we
probably have work to do here.
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signatu
k to resolve any
> issues.
I didn't know what lacunae are.
dictionary.com told me: noun
An empty space or a missing part; a gap.
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ore IESG members seem to have read your discuss comments rather than
abstract for the document, that clearly the document needs to be rewritten.
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om-- tailored response name (put into firmware)
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/| ruby on rails[
the list was complete.
+
+But, due to the above problems, a strong recommendation is to avoid using
+tailored responses as part of the names in the MUD file.
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quot;, but could use some formal
> description.
Ugh. I don't think we have any RFC that defines it. It's not in 8499bis.
Maybe someone else has an idea for a good reference.
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Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
> The TD;LR is I think that your latest changes are good and I’ll send
> -12 to IETF LC.
I think that I got the rest of your nits as well in the version I posted
yesterday.
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t; -> "For some users and classes of devices"
check.
https://github.com/IETF-OPSAWG-WG/draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations/pull/14/files
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Softwar
Michael Richardson wrote:
> Why would this be a challenge? The MUD manager is unlikely to be a
> non-constrained device. (even if it's in a home router, which I've
Argh. ENOCOFFEE: too many negatives in a row
_The MUD manager is not constrained_
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ame MUD file (and
signature) 1000 times.
If you really had a problem with the number of URLs stored, which I don't
think anyone will really have.
I don't think we need to keep track of malicious URLs that we ignored.
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from IoT device to SUIT status tracker),
it has somewhat less connection to what's actually running on the device.
It does, however, provide a palette of URLs that are valid.
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nlikely to be a burden.
A site with thousands of similar devices could keep a common list of URLs.
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m you soonish if you are happy or unhappy with these
changes, and I'll post a new version on Friday March 1.
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www
apply, and effectively, this is a new, unauthorized
device. It also will break any existing WPA keying, so the device would have
to do some rekeying, perhaps even onboard again.
> There is some discussion of the device identity issue in
> the security considerations of RFC8520. It might be
nsulting people is a courtesy :-)
So, Benoit and Mohammed (NMOP chairs) can just do this.
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ggestion.
RW> The suggestion is to use “outside the
RW> service facility” rather than “outside of …” Thanks, Rob
Now reads:
} It is probably undesirable to perform any upgrade to an airplane outside the
service facility.
As the changes are really minor I
dd-dnr] and [I-D.ietf-add-ddr] to
>> provided.
> Same here.
Already fixed in -11 I think.
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-11=draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-12=--html
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f DNS in IoT devices
> Authors: Michael Richardson Wei Pan Name:
> draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-11.txt Pages: 17 Dates:
> 2024-02-08
> Abstract:
>This document details concerns about how Internet of Things devices
> use IP addresses and
writing content.
> Warning: It appears that hyphens are missing. Suggested change:
> "denial-of-service"
okay.
> Section: 6, draft text: It can even be done without code changes via
> the use of a QR code affixed to the packaging (see [RFC9238]. Warning:
&g
was infiltrated by malware, and said malware
> wished to make accesses beyond what the current MUD file allowed, the
> the malware would have to: Warning: Possible typo: you repeated a word
> Suggested change: "the"
fixed.
> Section: 9, draft text: A manufacturer which h
t won't be mixed with the historic ones.
It's grandfathered as far as I'm concerned.
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; but perhaps at first, one might not even know what
kind of thing happened.
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ite up.
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d/or SS7 telephony!
I don't have a good one; I didn't live through that.
Fidonet, Xmodem->Zmodem to UUCP to IP for me :-)
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s, including up-coming proof-of-transit work.
Nits:
* OAM is not expanded in the introduction, and the RFC6191 reference needs to
come earlier.
* Section 2 starts off talking about history, and then gets into defining new
terms. I thought I was going to learn more about in-band/out-of-band from a
milit
are no changes in this version, it is awaiting shepherd write-up.
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ollowed by the TLS major version 0x03.
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https://ww
ose another set of abbreviations?
inb-OAM, oob-OAM.
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Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
> If you can remind me after the AD review and perhaps put them in the
> shepherd writeup (whoever the shepherd is) that would help me check
> that they are listed correctly for this bis document.
Done.
> I have to confess that I'm not completely bought
RFC9092 went through Last Call,
and some of
those references are occuring again.
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to the IESG.
> Thanks to the authors, contributors, WG, and our shepherd, mcr.
The downrefs that were supposed to be added for RFC9092 were not done, and
I'm unclear who/what will add the right ones for the update.
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report, which I'll post this week.
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In what way is the draft unclear about how things would go forward?
I don't know that we can effectively deprecate anything; but we could
certainly try.
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ons since then, but
>> that's where we were a few years ago.
> OK, but these are IETF WG documents, not on the ISE stream. So I don’t
> think this information is relevant (if it were, we’d need to advance it
> from rumor level to some authoritative reference)
istries that potentially required any kind of IETF actions to fill them.
Now, we've changed the IANA Considerations since then, but that's where we
were a few years ago.
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zmGq3e5M_bwOok/?
I would do a final pass to import linktypes.html just before WGLC, and then
update linktypes.html to note that new document exists.
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.0
could be done.
> On 15.11.2023 10:33, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> Hi, the three PCAP I-Ds have been stable for sometime now.
>>
>> draft-ietf-opsawg-pcap-03- going to Historic.
>> draft-ietf-opsawg-pcaplinktype - Standards Track to create
the entry for it on
> the tcpdump.org link-layer header types page at
> https://www.tcpdump.org/linktypes.html
> has a link to a description of the format.
okay, so let's include that link.
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Hi, the three PCAP I-Ds have been stable for sometime now.
draft-ietf-opsawg-pcap-03- going to Historic.
draft-ietf-opsawg-pcaplinktype - Standards Track to create Registry
draft-ietf-opsawg-pcapng-01 - going to Informational.
Can we WGLC them, and find shepherds for them?
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implementations might decide differently, but
this document is not about that part.
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cause the DNS name timed out. Maybe, I'd have an upper limit on session
state duration, but does violate the end to end principal. Still, it happens
all the time with NAT44.
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and specifically do not want
the liability. Even enterprises that do forced TLS inspection are apparently
recognizing that they MUST exempt banking and health traffic; or face serious
legal consequences.
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only a few
dozen addresses, while serving thousands of bulb's need to ask about software
updates.
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Eliot Lear wrote:
> On 23.10.2023 17:27, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> Maybe someone else can explain it back to me in a better way.
> The fundamental issue is this:
> * If you are permitting an IP address in an ACL based on a name in a
> MUD
e doc)
> once you have text for the other issues that you have flagged as github
> issues.
Now posting -10 based upon Med's feedback in this thread.
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f-
> dnsop-terminology-ter-02, 3 August 2020,
> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dnsop-
terminology-ter-02.txt> .
RFC8499bis now, and I think it should be normative.
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(or amend, or suggest) changes to these specific changes.
The DT posting email will follow in a new thread, but the diff is at:
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-08=draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-09=--html
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acker to launch
> targeted attacks to the IoT device (e.g., Attacker can advantage of
> the device vulnerability).
> can take advantage of any known vulnerabilities on the device.
fixed.
> (33) p 12, sec 7. Privacy Considerations
> The more comple
Thank you for the comments, I'll try to get a new document out next week.
I'm sorry that the grammar was poor, and I'll re-edit again.
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erd for other people's documents, then why would they
shepherd for your documents?
(all sausage is good if you pick the right mustard!)
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ietf.org/doc/html/draft-havel-opsawg-digital-map-00#name-network-inventory-ivy-propo
okay. I don't really understand why a digital map isn't part of the
inventory problem, but it's not really my problem.
I'm just concerned about opsawg overwork.
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-bits types, if someone felt that
32768->65000 was really not enough FCFS space)
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Will documents like draft-havel-opsawg-digital-map and
draft-davis-opsawg-some-refinements-to-rfc8345 move to IVY once it is
chartered?
(Not sure if the ML will change names)
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> the historic ones.
We allocated a few chunks for private use years ago, and they could be in use
internally somewhere, so we don't want to change that. But, maybe we should
mark them as deprecated?
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IESG Approval.
Now, linktypes "highest" level is Specification Required.
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ETF change control.
(When we started this work back in 2012, the story for pcapng was different)
I would like to rename "PCAP NG" as something less "NG".
I'd suggest PCAP 2022 or something like that.
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the WG) agreed to that a long time ago.
I updated the document to reflect that, and add BCP14 terminology.
I believe that Henk updated the DT to reflect that status as well.
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signatu
Henk Birkholz wrote:
> "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft."
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Henk Birkholz wrote:
> "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft."
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f March 2023).
Shouldn't this go to https://datatracker.ietf.org/rg/qirg/about/ instead?
I don't understand why opsawg would be a place for this liaison.
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?
If it would make sense to apply rules to the outer one, would it be easier to
just have more than one tunnel?
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re-organize
things. We should have some way to deal with that.
The reason we need to write a new standard for this is because we need to set
expectations for the MUD Controller and MUD file provider to agree on how to
do this process.
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PcapNG could be "Packages of Network and Generics."
or...?
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Guy Harris wrote:
> On Jan 24, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Michael Richardson
wrote:
>> With this document adoption, we finally have all the PCAP related
documents
>> in the DT. One thing that was mentioned to me is that the PCAPNG
document
>> has an IANA Re
Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On 2023-01-24, at 23:56, Guy Harris wrote:
>>
>>> I still hate the name PCAP *NG*, and I wish we could call it PCAPv2
instead.
> Why don’t we call it TLS?
Yes, I acknowledge the sillyness of that.
> (SCNR. Renaming well-known standards at the
nd I wish we could call it PCAPv2 instead.
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ns on the website also have links to external
> specifications; those should be preserved, in some fashion, in the
> I-D.
I guess that we need to do a detailed review of each entry.
Perhaps there will be entries which WG members have better references, even.
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iot-dns-considerations-07=draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-08=--html
This is includes RFC9019 fix. Are there any other WGLC comments?
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NS in IoT devices
> Authors : Michael Richardson
> Wei Pan
> Filename: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-iot-dns-considerations-07.txt
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>
https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-i
rafts stored on github, does not actually publish
any names.
Instead a wildcard exists to answer.
github would be unable to provision all infinity of possible names into the PTR
records.
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Tiru, Thank you for the WGLC comments!
I will post a new revision this week with revisions.
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Carsten Bormann wrote:
> More fundamentally, I’m having a problem with arguments of the form
> “The website did such a good job we can’t move the registration
> function to IANA”. (If we have a problem with IANA registrations, we
> should identify it and address it.)
Thank you
ill listen to your requests, and you think that the WG will
publish the document without changes?
Do you understand that the authors/maintainers of the web site are in fact the
authors of the document?
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not
> produce a specification to its usual standards, how far should it go?
> In passing, 65000 appears in two ranges.
Yes. [32678,65000) then.
--
Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
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Henk Birkholz wrote:
> This internet draft updates RFC8520. The authors believe the
I think that this document needs to be Proposed Standard.
It normatively updates RFC8520, which I believe went through as AD Sponsored,
which itself is PS.
--
Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6
mark it's intended status as BCP, and that's
correct.
--
Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
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