[HACKERS] let's meet

2006-06-22 Thread Wilbur
Hi there lovely, I was asearching the net few days ago. I am new to this thing. and saw your profible. I decided to email you cause I found you attractive. I maight come down to youra city in fewb weeks. Let me know if we can meet each other in person. I am attractive girl. I am surea you won't

Re: [HACKERS] Rethinking stats communication mechanisms

2006-06-22 Thread Kenneth Marshall
On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 05:26:16PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: I wrote: PFC [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, the proposal : On executing a command, Backend stores the command string, then overwrites the counter with (counter + 1) and with the timestamp of command start. Periodically, like

Re: [HACKERS] Rethinking stats communication mechanisms

2006-06-22 Thread Kenneth Marshall
On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 11:07:41PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Bort, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone know a variant of this that really works? Here's a theory: If the counter is bumped to an odd number before modification, and an even number after it's done, then the reader will know

Re: [HACKERS] let's meet

2006-06-22 Thread Marc G. Fournier
Sorry folks, my fault ... hit the 'accept' button too fast :( On Sat, 17 Jun 2006, Wilbur wrote: Hi there lovely, I was asearching the net few days ago. I am new to this thing. and saw your profible. I decided to email you cause I found you attractive. I maight come down to youra city in fewb

Re: [HACKERS] CVS HEAD busted on Windows?

2006-06-22 Thread Dave Page
-Original Message- From: Tom Lane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 June 2006 20:43 To: Dave Page Cc: Andrew Dunstan; Peter Eisentraut; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] CVS HEAD busted on Windows? Dave Page dpage@vale-housing.co.uk writes: Yeah - I've

Re: [HACKERS] checking on buildfarm member thrush

2006-06-22 Thread Gaetano Mendola
Tom Lane wrote: I'm trying to determine why thrush has been failing on PG CVS HEAD for the past few days. Could you try running the attached program on that machine, and see what it prints? I suspect it will dump core :-( Note: you might need to use -D_GNU_SOURCE to get it to compile at

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
Clinging to sanity, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward) mumbled into her beard: We all know that PostgreSQL suffers performance problems when rows are updated frequently prior to a vacuum. The most serious example can be seen by using PostgreSQL as a session handler for a busy we site. You may

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas DCP SD
Each time the record is updated, a new version is created, thus lengthening the correct version search each time row is accessed, until, of course, the next vacuum comes along and corrects the index to point to the latest version of the record. Is that a fair explanation? No,

[HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Diogo Biazus
I'm developing the summer of code project to create a xlog viewer.The tool we want to create is a DBA tool used for inspect the xlog files, looking for some operations, statistcs of database usage and status of transactions. Some use cases:* Some user made a mistake and commited it to the

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Christopher Browne
After a long battle with technology, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward), an earthling, wrote: Clinging to sanity, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward) mumbled into her beard: We all know that PostgreSQL suffers performance problems when rows are updated frequently prior to a vacuum. The most

Re: [HACKERS] CVS HEAD busted on Windows?

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Dave Page wrote: As a sidenote on the postgres/postmaster merge subject though - Magnus I were wondering if Peter's change means we no longer need to ship postmaster.exe and postgres.exe with pgInstaller. Presumably we can just use postgres.exe for everything now? Won't we still need

Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe (was: CVS HEAD busted on Windows?)

2006-06-22 Thread Dave Page
-Original Message- From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 June 2006 14:06 To: Dave Page Cc: Tom Lane; Peter Eisentraut; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] CVS HEAD busted on Windows? Dave Page wrote: As a sidenote on the

Re: [HACKERS] [PERFORM] Sun Donated a Sun Fire T2000 to the PostgreSQL

2006-06-22 Thread David Roussel
Arjen van der Meijden wrote: Here is a graph of our performance measured on PostgreSQL: http://achelois.tweakers.net/~acm/pgsql-t2000/T2000-schaling-postgresql.png ... The "perfect" line is based on the "Max" value for 1 core and then just multiplied by the amount of cores to have

Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Dave Page wrote: Won't we still need to know if we are called as postmaster or postgres? Unless the 'postmaster' instance starts all it's sub processes with an additional option to tell them they're children (I haven't looked at the code yet so I dunno if this is how it's done). For

Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe (was: CVS HEAD busted on Windows?)

2006-06-22 Thread Hiroshi Saito
Dave Page wrote: Won't we still need to know if we are called as postmaster or postgres? Unless the 'postmaster' instance starts all it's sub processes with an additional option to tell them they're children (I haven't looked at the code yet so I dunno if this is how it's done). For

Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe

2006-06-22 Thread Dave Page
-Original Message- From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 June 2006 14:26 To: Dave Page Cc: Tom Lane; Peter Eisentraut; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe Windows children could be handled, I think, but here is

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
After a long battle with technology, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward), an earthling, wrote: Clinging to sanity, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward) mumbled into her beard: [snip] 1. The index points to all the versions, until they get vacuumed out. It can't point to all versions, it points

Re: [HACKERS] checking on buildfarm member thrush

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Gaetano Mendola [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: I'm trying to determine why thrush has been failing on PG CVS HEAD for the past few days. Could you try running the attached program on that machine, and see what it prints? I suspect it will dump core :-( $ gcc -D_GNU_SOURCE tom.c

Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe (was: CVS HEAD busted on Windows?)

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Dave Page dpage@vale-housing.co.uk writes: though - Magnus I were wondering if Peter's change means we no longer need to ship postmaster.exe and postgres.exe with pgInstaller. Presumably we can just use postgres.exe for everything now? Won't we still need to know if we are called as

Re: [HACKERS] postmaster.exe vs postgres.exe (was: CVS HEAD busted

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: Won't we still need to know if we are called as postmaster or postgres? No. The entire point of the recent changes is that the behavior no longer depends on the name of the executable, only on the switches. Oh. My mistake. That sounds good. cheers andrew

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Mark Woodward wrote: Hmm, OK, then the problem is more serious than I suspected. This means that every index on a row has to be updated on every transaction that modifies that row. Is that correct? Add an index entry, yes. I am attaching some code that shows the problem with regard to

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, OK, then the problem is more serious than I suspected. This means that every index on a row has to be updated on every transaction that modifies that row. Is that correct? Add an index entry, yes. Again, this is a case for

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Csaba Nagy
[...] There has to be a more linear way of handling this scenario. So vacuum the table often. Good advice, except if the table is huge :-) Here we have for example some tables which are frequently updated but contain 100 million rows. Vacuuming that takes hours. And the dead row

Re: [HACKERS] Problem to current-status information in shared memory patch

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Qingqing Zhou [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote postgres --single works for me. Maybe you need a make distclean/rebuild? Sorry, because I forget to say that you need to turn stats_command_string on. Ah. OK, fixed. regards, tom lane

Re: [HACKERS] [PERFORM] Sun Donated a Sun Fire T2000 to the PostgreSQL

2006-06-22 Thread Arjen van der Meijden
On 22-6-2006 15:03, David Roussel wrote: Sureky the 'perfect' line ought to be linear? If the performance was perfectly linear, then the 'pages generated' ought to be G times the number (virtual) processors, where G is the gradient of the graph. In such a case the graph will go through the

Re: [HACKERS] shall we have a TRACE_MEMORY mode

2006-06-22 Thread korry
As I follow Relyea Mike's recent post of possible memory leak, I think that we are lack of a good way of identifing memory usage. Maybe we should also remember __FILE__, __LINE__ etc for better memory usage diagnose when TRACE_MEMORY is on? I find __FILE__ and __LINE__ very helpful

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mario Weilguni
Am Donnerstag, 22. Juni 2006 16:09 schrieb Csaba Nagy: [...] There has to be a more linear way of handling this scenario. So vacuum the table often. Good advice, except if the table is huge :-) Here we have for example some tables which are frequently updated but contain 100 million

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
[ redirecting to -hackers, as I see no need for this to be a core issue ] Charles Comiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, I've recently looked through the PostgreSQL code and a couple of questions surfaced. I was hoping someone here may be able to answer them. Two have links to possible

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Hannu Krosing
Ühel kenal päeval, N, 2006-06-22 kell 09:59, kirjutas Mark Woodward: After a long battle with technology, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward), an earthling, wrote: Clinging to sanity, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward) mumbled into It pointed to *ALL* the versions. Hmm, OK, then the

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Hannu Krosing
Ühel kenal päeval, N, 2006-06-22 kell 10:20, kirjutas Jonah H. Harris: On 6/22/06, Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, OK, then the problem is more serious than I suspected. This means that every index on a row has to be updated on every transaction that modifies that row. Is

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
Ühel kenal päeval, N, 2006-06-22 kell 09:59, kirjutas Mark Woodward: After a long battle with technology, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward), an earthling, wrote: Clinging to sanity, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward) mumbled into It pointed to *ALL* the versions. Hmm, OK, then the

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess that MySQL on its original storage does that, but they allow only one concurrent update per table and no transactions. More like practically every commercial database. As ~97% of transactions commit (yes, some can argue that number),

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
Ühel kenal päeval, N, 2006-06-22 kell 10:20, kirjutas Jonah H. Harris: On 6/22/06, Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, OK, then the problem is more serious than I suspected. This means that every index on a row has to be updated on every transaction that modifies that row. Is

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Diogo Biazus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The idea I've been discussing with Simon Riggs is to create a set of functions that can be called from within the database. I'd question that at the very start. I don't see any strong reason to do it that way, and as you admit further down it'd make it

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Christopher Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After a long battle with technology, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward), an earthling, wrote: Not true. Oracle does not seem to exhibit this problem. Oracle suffers a problem in this regard that PostgreSQL doesn't; in Oracle, rollbacks are quite

Re: [HACKERS] Going for all green buildfarm results

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Mark Wong wrote: Now why are we failing on 7.3? What version of flex do you have? If it's too modern we'll just need to take 7.3 out of the cobra and stoat rotations - we'd really only make supercritical fixes on that branch these days. Flex is 2.5.33 on both systems. I'm assuming

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jochem van Dieten
On 6/22/06, Mark Woodward wrote: (..) thousand active sessions (..) If an active user causes a session update once a second (..) Generally speaking, sessions aren't updated when they change, they are usually updated per HTTP request. The data in a session may not change, but the session

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Lukas Smith
Tom Lane wrote: Basically there's no free lunch: if you want the benefits of MVCC it's going to cost you somewhere. In the Postgres design you pay by having to do VACUUM pretty often for heavily-updated tables. I don't think that decision is fundamentally wrong --- the attractive thing about

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it'd make it impossible to use the viewer to work on extracting data from a failed cluster; which is, at least in my mind, one of the primary use-cases for the thing. While I too see this as something which could be used for this outside the

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Lukas Smith
Jochem van Dieten wrote: make the session handler smarter? And if you can't do that, put some logic in the session table that turns an update without changes into a no-op? err isnt that one the job of the database? regards, Lukas ---(end of

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Chris Browne
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Csaba Nagy) writes: [...] There has to be a more linear way of handling this scenario. So vacuum the table often. Good advice, except if the table is huge :-) ... Then the table shouldn't be designed to be huge. That represents a design error. Here we have for

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Oracle design has got other drawbacks: if you need to access a row version other than than the very latest, you need to go searching in the rollback segments for it. There are ways to implement this functionality without implementing it exactly

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread D'Arcy J.M. Cain
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:01:38 +0200 Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jochem van Dieten wrote: make the session handler smarter? And if you can't do that, put some logic in the session table that turns an update without changes into a no-op? err isnt that one the job of the

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Rod Taylor
Here we have for example some tables which are frequently updated but contain 100 million rows. Vacuuming that takes hours. And the dead row candidates are the ones which are updated again and again and looked up frequently... This demonstrates that archival material and active data

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Jonah H. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it should certainly be able to run on it's own, but it wouldn't be that hard to extend the functions so that they were usable from within the database or vice-versa. Yes it would. The most obvious point is that memory management and error

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
Christopher Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: After a long battle with technology, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Woodward), an earthling, wrote: Not true. Oracle does not seem to exhibit this problem. Oracle suffers a problem in this regard that PostgreSQL doesn't; in Oracle, rollbacks are quite

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Rod Taylor
You mean systems that are designed so exactly, that they can't take 10% performance change ? No, that's not really the point, performance degrades over time, in one minute it degraded 10%. The update to session ratio has a HUGE impact on PostgreSQL. If you have a thousand active

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it would. The most obvious point is that memory management and error handling conventions inside the backend are quite different from what you'd expect to employ in a standalone program. No, this wouldn't really be that hard, especially if he

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
You mean systems that are designed so exactly, that they can't take 10% performance change ? No, that's not really the point, performance degrades over time, in one minute it degraded 10%. The update to session ratio has a HUGE impact on PostgreSQL. If you have a thousand active

Re: [HACKERS] Going for all green buildfarm results

2006-06-22 Thread Neil Conway
On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:52 -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: I believe our supported version is still 2.5.4, which is what all my linux systems have. Its not clear to me why some people have such antipathy toward recent flex releases, but if our only supported flex version is 2.5.4, I think this

Re: [HACKERS] let's meet

2006-06-22 Thread Josh Berkus
Marc, Sorry folks, my fault ... hit the 'accept' button too fast So, was Wilbur really as attractive as she claimed? -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you INSERT into multiple partitions (by time -- say one per minute) and TRUNCATE periodically (30 minute old partitions for 30 minute expiry) it works much better. Expiring the session is quite fast as well since they'll go away with the

Re: [HACKERS] Going for all green buildfarm results

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Neil Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 12:52 -0400, Andrew Dunstan wrote: I believe our supported version is still 2.5.4, which is what all my linux systems have. Its not clear to me why some people have such antipathy toward recent flex releases, but if our only

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Rod Taylor
On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 13:42 -0400, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 6/22/06, Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you INSERT into multiple partitions (by time -- say one per minute) and TRUNCATE periodically (30 minute old partitions for 30 minute expiry) it works much better. Expiring the

Re: [HACKERS] let's meet

2006-06-22 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, Josh Berkus wrote: Marc, Sorry folks, my fault ... hit the 'accept' button too fast So, was Wilbur really as attractive as she claimed? I don't know, Bruce mentioned to me that he wanted to meet him, so we'll have to wait until they have their get-together :)

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Magnus Hagander
item #2: Is dllinit.c GPL code? The file dllinit.c, located in the src/utils directory documents the author as Mumit Khan. Did Mumit Khan contribute this code and did he contribute it for distribution under the PostgreSQL license? If I read correctly, the name stamp in CVS does

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
On Thu, 22 Jun 2006, Jonah H. Harris wrote: On 6/22/06, Rod Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you INSERT into multiple partitions (by time -- say one per minute) and TRUNCATE periodically (30 minute old partitions for 30 minute expiry) it works much better. Expiring the session is quite fast

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Greg Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Oracle design has got other drawbacks: if you need to access a row version other than than the very latest, you need to go searching in the rollback segments for it. This is slow (no index help) Just for the record, if i understood correctly -- this

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Jonah H. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 6/22/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it would. The most obvious point is that memory management and error handling conventions inside the backend are quite different from what you'd expect to employ in a standalone program. No, this

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Diogo Biazus
Agree, the project must choose one path as the starting point. But the two options can be given in the long run.I still think that as a starting point the functions inside the database are a good option.The reasons are: - using SQL to agregate and transform data in any way from the logs.- it's

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Lukas Smith
Greg Stark wrote: There are other solutions too. I never used DB2 but I was led to believe they used their transaction log to retrieve old versions of the records. Someone else here claimed DB2 didn't implement MVCC at all so perhaps that's wrong though. I would be suprised giving this paper:

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jochem van Dieten wrote: make the session handler smarter? And if you can't do that, put some logic in the session table that turns an update without changes into a no-op? err isnt that one the job of the database? No. That idea has been suggested and

Re: [HACKERS] let's meet

2006-06-22 Thread A.M.
On Thu, June 22, 2006 1:42 pm, Josh Berkus wrote: Marc, Sorry folks, my fault ... hit the 'accept' button too fast So, was Wilbur really as attractive as she claimed? In all seriousness, it's actually a pretty clever spam ploy. 1) Spam mailing lists of nerdy, desperate guys with

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Josh Berkus
Tom, Augh. Does this mean that we need to backpatch earlier versions to remove the possible GPL links? -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Greg Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Oracle design has got other drawbacks: if you need to access a row version other than than the very latest, you need to go searching in the rollback segments for it. This is slow (no index help) Just for the

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Diogo Biazus
Diogo, are you working from my old xlogdump hack?If so what version?I can send you the latest off-list.I add stuff to it periodically when I need it, and I don't think I've published it lately.Yup, I've got a version that was posted here some time ago. If you could send me the latest version I

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Magnus Hagander [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: item #2: Is dllinit.c GPL code? I don't think it's needed on Win32. It's not included in my VC++ build, because I forgot it :-), and it works just fine. The point is that as long as we don't do anything in it (which we don't), the runtime supplied

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread PFC
As you can see, in about a minute at high load, this very simple table lost about 10% of its performance, and I've seen worse based on update frequency. Before you say this is an obscure problem, I can tell you it isn't. I have worked with more than a few projects that had to switch away

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes: Augh. Does this mean that we need to backpatch earlier versions to remove the possible GPL links? [ shrug... ] I'm not planning to panic; we've still got explicit GPL code that's not been cleaned out of contrib/ yet. (Um, weren't you on the hook to move

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Adding back pgsql-hackers. Mark Woodward wrote: Mark Woodward wrote: Hmm, OK, then the problem is more serious than I suspected. This means that every index on a row has to be updated on every transaction that modifies that row. Is that correct? Add an index entry, yes. I am

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Josh Berkus
Tom, [ shrug... ] I'm not planning to panic; we've still got explicit GPL code that's not been cleaned out of contrib/ yet. (Um, weren't you on the hook to move those modules to pgfoundry projects?) Yeah, thanks for reminding me. Will do before feature freeze. As soon as I can figure

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
As you can see, in about a minute at high load, this very simple table lost about 10% of its performance, and I've seen worse based on update frequency. Before you say this is an obscure problem, I can tell you it isn't. I have worked with more than a few projects that had to switch away

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Bort, Paul
so presumably this is only needed for old Cygwin versions. Can anyone say how old 1001 is and whether we still ought to care about it? IIRC, I've been on 1.5.x for at least three years. 1.0/1.1 seems to be around 2000/2001, based on a quick Google. So it's definitely older than PG 7.3.

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Greg Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, you should be able to find the older version easily enough, if you arrived at the newer version and realized you needed to visit the older version. But this fails in scenarios where you are searching on a column that's been updated --- the index

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes: Yeah, thanks for reminding me. Will do before feature freeze. As soon as I can figure out how to generate a patch that removes directories. Don't worry about that; CVS never deletes directories. But anyway, I can easily handle removing the code. I

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Josh Berkus
Tom, adddepend dbase dbmirror fulltextindex mSQL-interface mac oracle tips userlock I think you're right. I will do this before I leave town on the 30th. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)---

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread PFC
What you seem not to grasp at this point is a large web-farm, about 10 or more servers running PHP, Java, ASP, or even perl. The database is usually the most convenient and, aside from the particular issue we are talking about, best suited. The answer is sticky sessions : each user is

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Tom Lane wrote: Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes: Yeah, thanks for reminding me. Will do before feature freeze. As soon as I can figure out how to generate a patch that removes directories. Don't worry about that; CVS never deletes directories. But anyway, I can easily handle

Re: [HACKERS] xlog viewer proposal

2006-06-22 Thread Jonah H. Harris
On 6/22/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonah, I've been working with this system for years, and it's not that easy to handle the differences with a few macros. True, it is harder than just that. I didn't mean to make light of it at all, just that a good amount of design upfront would

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Bort, Paul wrote: so presumably this is only needed for old Cygwin versions. Can anyone say how old 1001 is and whether we still ought to care about it? IIRC, I've been on 1.5.x for at least three years. 1.0/1.1 seems to be around 2000/2001, based on a quick Google. So it's

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Mark Woodward
What you seem not to grasp at this point is a large web-farm, about 10 or more servers running PHP, Java, ASP, or even perl. The database is usually the most convenient and, aside from the particular issue we are talking about, best suited. The answer is sticky sessions : each user

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
PFC wrote: What you seem not to grasp at this point is a large web-farm, about 10 or more servers running PHP, Java, ASP, or even perl. The database is usually the most convenient and, aside from the particular issue we are talking about, best suited. The answer is sticky sessions

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Tom Lane wrote: The bad news is that except in the stats_command_string cases, HEAD is noticeably slower than 8.1 on the machine with slow gettimeofday. In the single-transaction test this might be blamed on the addition of statement_timestamp support (which requires a gettimeofday per

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread David Fetter
On Thu, Jun 22, 2006 at 07:01:38PM +0200, Lukas Smith wrote: Jochem van Dieten wrote: make the session handler smarter? And if you can't do that, put some logic in the session table that turns an update without changes into a no-op? err isnt that one the job of the database? By no means.

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jim Nasby
On Jun 22, 2006, at 12:56 PM, Greg Stark wrote: Just for the record, if i understood correctly -- this was all a bit black magicky -- Oracle found the data in the rollback segment by storing a pointer to it in the block header where the updated data is. Ie, it could jump straight to the

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jim Nasby
On Jun 22, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Mark Woodward wrote: I actually have a good number of years of experience in this topic, and memcached or file system files are NOT the best solutions for a server farm. What's wrong with memcached for session data? -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Jim Nasby
On Jun 22, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Lukas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jochem van Dieten wrote: make the session handler smarter? And if you can't do that, put some logic in the session table that turns an update without changes into a no-op? err isnt that one the job of the

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Stefan Kaltenbrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is what I get on a fast AMD Dual Opteron box(Running Debian Sarge/AMD64): 8.1.4 HEAD 100 SELECT 1; 74,74,7377,76,77 stats_command_string=1; 105,99,106

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Tom Lane wrote: Stefan Kaltenbrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is what I get on a fast AMD Dual Opteron box(Running Debian Sarge/AMD64): 8.1.4 HEAD 100 SELECT 1;74,74,7377,76,77 stats_command_string=1;

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Jim Nasby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Question: do we currently create new index entries even if the index key hasn't changed? Yes. If so, what's the purpose of storing the CTID of the next version in the old version of the row? So that UPDATE can always find the newest version of the

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Stefan Kaltenbrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: Or do you mean that you have stats_row_level and/or stats_block_level on in all four cases? yes - stats_row_level and stats_block_level on in all cases (sorry for the confusion) - I can easily redo the tests without those - but

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bort, Paul wrote: so presumably this is only needed for old Cygwin versions. Can anyone say how old 1001 is and whether we still ought to care about it? IIRC, I've been on 1.5.x for at least three years. 1.0/1.1 seems to be around 2000/2001, based

Re: [HACKERS] vacuum, performance, and MVCC

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Jim Nasby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would be nice to add is the ability to perform that check more easily. As of 8.1... ... if NEW=OLD then ... ERROR: operator does not exist: test = test HINT: No operator matches the given name and argument type(s). You may need to add explicit

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Tom Lane wrote: Stefan Kaltenbrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: Or do you mean that you have stats_row_level and/or stats_block_level on in all four cases? yes - stats_row_level and stats_block_level on in all cases (sorry for the confusion) - I can easily redo the tests

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Tom Lane
Stefan Kaltenbrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: It'd be interesting to compare 8.1 and HEAD for the no-overhead case; I don't think you need to redo all four cases, but I'd like to see that one. 8.1: 50,50,49 HEAD: 49,48,49 OK, so that seems comparable to my results on a

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote: Charles Comiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: item #3: Carsten Wolff copyright in informix.c file The file informix.c contains a copyright from Carsten Wolff. Did Carsten directly contribute this file to the PostgreSQL project? Wow, I see what mess we would be into if we

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Larry Rosenman
Josh Berkus wrote: Tom, adddepend dbase dbmirror fulltextindex mSQL-interface mac oracle tips userlock I think you're right. I will do this before I leave town on the 30th. before anyone asks, the files I wrote in contrib/mac are free to be licensed any way the project sees fit.

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: OK, so let's yank the file altogether and see what happens. I can make a cut at fixing the makefiles based on removing references to DLLINIT, but it might be better if someone who's in a position to test the results on Windows did the patch ... Something has

Re: [HACKERS] Overhead for stats_command_string et al, take 2

2006-06-22 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote: Stefan Kaltenbrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane wrote: It'd be interesting to compare 8.1 and HEAD for the no-overhead case; I don't think you need to redo all four cases, but I'd like to see that one. 8.1:50,50,49 HEAD: 49,48,49 OK, so that

Re: [HACKERS] [CORE] GPL Source and Copyright Questions

2006-06-22 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Tom Lane wrote: OK, so let's yank the file altogether and see what happens. I can make a cut at fixing the makefiles based on removing references to DLLINIT, but it might be better if someone who's in a position to test the results on Windows did the patch ...

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