[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Change by Raymond Hettinger : -- nosy: -rhettinger ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Irit Katriel added the comment: I should have said "redundant information" rather than "obvious". I consider it redundant to specify that the default behavior applies to some specific case. If I read redundant information I may pause to think why it was necessary to explicitly state it,

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Ned Batchelder added the comment: What we're debating here is a micro-cosm of the broader "documentation philosophy" questions that I'm hoping the Documentation WG can iron out. What is "obvious"? Is it obvious that print returns None when file.write does not? Why does "exec" explicitly

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: > New learners coming to Python don't know the same things > as people with experience. IMO, new learners will be worse off by adding "returns None" to all of the builtins. At best it a distractor. I work with new learners almost every day. The issue

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Ned Batchelder added the comment: > When you state the obvious... Obvious to who? New learners coming to Python don't know the same things as people with experience. -- nosy: +nedbat ___ Python tracker

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Steven, I am also inclined to close this. What do you think after the discussion? It is sometimes easier to clarify when we have a confused person present in the discussion. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Irit Katriel added the comment: > "have the :ref:`default return value of ``None``." This sounds to me like "by default they return None but you can override this default". I don't think any change to the doc makes sense here. When you state the obvious people wonder what they're

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

James Gerity added the comment: My thought was to add something like this to the top of functions.rst: ``` Note that some of the functions listed here have the :ref:`default return value of ``None``. ``` For reference, the builtins this applies to are: * breakpoint() * delattr() * exec()

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Please post your proposed change here to be discussed by participants here. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

James Gerity added the comment: > advertising that all functions default to returning None This is already communicated in § 4.7 ("Defining Functions") of the official tutorial. I think it would be a good idea to revise that section so that this property of functions is a little more

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Éric Araujo added the comment: The new title is puzzling; the discussion moved to advertising that all functions default to returning None, this is not related to the built-in status. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue46282] return value of builtins is not clearly indicated

Change by James Gerity : -- title: print() docs do not indicate its return value -> return value of builtins is not clearly indicated ___ Python tracker ___