On Wednesday 11 June 2008 09:55, Alessandro Zummo wrote:
I was talking about a possible proprietary sane backend
scenario:
GPL backend + proprietary decoding libs. A manufacturer would choose
compatible terms for this case and it is not forbidden by the GPL.
I think this thread is
Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it writes:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:00:38 +0200 (CEST)
Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de wrote:
As far as I see, it seems to be allowed from the legal point
of view to have free software that uses non-free libraries
because they only say that the
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:49:04 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
correct.
No so. As per my reply to Johannes' mail:
This depends on the respective license conditions of the free and
non-free parts. If all of the conditions are not mutually exclusive,
then
Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de writes:
Hello,
On Jun 6 16:40 Alessandro Zummo wrote (shortened):
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#FSWithNFLibs
As far as I see, it seems to be allowed from the legal point
of view to have free software that uses non-free libraries
because they
Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it writes:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:49:04 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
correct.
No so. As per my reply to Johannes' mail:
This depends on the respective license conditions of the free and
non-free parts. If
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:55:14 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
GPL backend + proprietary decoding libs. A manufacturer would choose
compatible terms for this case and it is not forbidden by the GPL.
There are two possibilities here:
1) the non-free decoding
Hello,
;-Original Message-
;From: Johannes Meixner [mailto:jsmeix at suse.de]
;Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:06 PM
;To: Olaf Meeuwissen
;Cc: Wang Mengqiang; sane-devel at lists.alioth.debian.org
;Subject: Re: [sane-devel] Please give me some help to solve ;the
license issues in using
Hello,
;-Original Message-
;From: kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu
;[mailto:kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu]
;Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 10:40 PM
;To: Wang Mengqiang
;Cc: Alessandro Zummo; SPD-GW; sane-devel at lists.alioth.debian.org
;Subject: RE: [sane-devel] Please give me some
Hello Wang Mengqiang,
On 10 Jun 08 16:24, Wang Mengqiang wrote:
For example, you are building the high-way,
as we are talking about writing drivers, a more obvious analogy comes to mind.
Hardware producers build cars. But these days they don't tell you how to drive
these cars and there are no
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:00:38 +0200 (CEST)
Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de wrote:
As far as I see, it seems to be allowed from the legal point
of view to have free software that uses non-free libraries
because they only say that the program won't be fully usable
or not usable at all in a
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, m. allan noah wrote:
On 6/10/08, Daniel Gl?ckner daniel-gl at gmx.net wrote:
Hello Wang Mengqiang,
On 10 Jun 08 16:24, Wang Mengqiang wrote:
For example, you are building the high-way,
as we are talking about writing drivers, a more obvious analogy comes to
(Quote)
They even say:
---
If the program is already written using the non-free library,
perhaps it is too late to change the decision. You may as well
release the program as it stands, rather than not release it.
Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de writes:
Hello,
[snip]
On Jun 6 Olaf Meeuwissen wrote (shortened):
If GPL'd code uses a non-compatible library via dlopen that's just as
much a violation as linking to it directly. The code runs in the same
process space. That makes the combined work a
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
[snip}
so, is our answer to Mengqiang that there are only four choices?
1. you can write an entirely free backend, and use code from SANE.
2. you can write a partly free backend, that runs the closed parts as
a separate process, and use code from
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
[snip]
this means that the sane I/O facilities cannot be used. however
it may be the cleanest thing.
that's similar to the epkowa way, which uses sane io facilities
iirc?
well, if epkowa dynamically links and uses sanei, then it is not
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
On 6/8/08, Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
[snip]
this means that the sane I/O facilities cannot be used. however
it may be the cleanest thing.
that's similar to
On Sunday 08 June 2008 04:18, Nicolas wrote:
A bit of clarification:
Canon released a packaged frontend+backend named scangearmp. This
program works fine as a whole, independently from SANE, with a few pixma
models only.
Among this package, there are some files named libsane-canon_mfp.* ,
On 6/8/08, David Lochrin dlochrin at d2.net.au wrote:
On Sunday 08 June 2008 04:18, Nicolas wrote:
A bit of clarification:
Canon released a packaged frontend+backend named scangearmp. This
program works fine as a whole, independently from SANE, with a few pixma
models only.
On Sunday 08 June 2008 22:06, m. allan noah wrote:
In relation to my previous post, if it's possible to accomodate
manufacturers' sensitivities regarding proprietary code within the
constraints of the GPL and overall SANE architecture (especially a major
player such as Canon) the status of
On 6/8/08, David Lochrin dlochrin at d2.net.au wrote:
On Sunday 08 June 2008 22:06, m. allan noah wrote:
In relation to my previous post, if it's possible to accomodate
manufacturers' sensitivities regarding proprietary code within the
constraints of the GPL and overall SANE
And here we see the problem, in a nutshell. My own course is quite similar
to Allan's, though I do my work for another project.
I think that what is going to have to happen, ultimately, is that some of
these hardware manufacturers are going to see if they can find a
competitive advantage by
On 6/8/08, kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu
kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu wrote:
And here we see the problem, in a nutshell. My own course is quite similar
to Allan's, though I do my work for another project.
I think that what is going to have to happen, ultimately, is that some of
On 6/6/08, Daniel Gl?ckner daniel-gl at gmx.net wrote:
On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:10:52AM -0400, m. allan noah wrote:
3. you can write a partly free backend, that dynamically links to the
closed parts, provided that you place a license exception in the free
part allowing said linking.
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008, m. allan noah wrote:
On 6/8/08, kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu
kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu wrote:
[...]
Canon is a very big company, where one hand may not know what another
hand is doing. I personally have spent the last couple of years
negotiating an NDA
On 6/8/08, Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
[snip]
this means that the sane I/O facilities cannot be used. however
it may be the cleanest thing.
that's similar to the epkowa way, which uses sane io facilities
Hello,
On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:55, Daniel Gl?ckner wrote:
Last year Canon released Linux drivers for the MP scanners that require a
closed source module. We have never heard of anyone successfully using this
driver. On the other hand there is the open source pixma driver that is
actively
On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:55, Daniel Gl?ckner wrote:
Last year Canon released Linux drivers for the MP scanners that require a
closed source module. We have never heard of anyone successfully using this
driver. On the other hand there is the open source pixma driver that is
actively
Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de writes:
I have another question:
Assume because of whatever reason a scanner manufacturer
cannot make a free backend (e.g. because of third-party
license stuff, or just because the upper management at the
manufacturer is full of fear that another
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 4 21:02 m. allan noah wrote (shortened):
SANE is GPL, with an added exception to allow proprietary front-end
programs to link against it. What you are
Hello,
On Jun 5 11:30 m. allan noah wrote (shortened):
Sane is not here to provide sanei for proprietary backends to steal.
Many thanks!
Now it is clear for me!
Kind Regards
Johannes Meixner
--
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany
AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF:
at banach.math.auburn.edu
;[mailto:kilgota at banach.math.auburn.edu]
;Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:00 AM
;To: Alessandro Zummo
;Cc: Wang Mengqiang; SPD-GW; sane-devel at lists.alioth.debian.org
;Subject: Re: [sane-devel] Please give me some help to solve
;the license issues in using sane
;
;
;Wang Mengqiang,
;
;I
Hello,
On 5 Jun Wang Mengqiang wrote (shortened):
we plan to use several special modules which do not contain
any open source code from sane or other party, because they
contain some tecnology that we do not want to open.
So, that is, our backend is composed of two parts,
one part is open
On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:24:25 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
If GPL'd code uses a non-compatible library via dlopen that's just as
much a violation as linking to it directly. The code runs in the same
process space. That makes the combined work a derivative, so,
On 6/6/08, Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:24:25 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
If GPL'd code uses a non-compatible library via dlopen that's just as
much a violation as linking to it directly. The code runs in the
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:54:13 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gm
gpl faq is pretty clear on this one:
If the modules are included in the same executable file, they are
definitely combined in one program. If modules are designed to run
linked together in a shared address space, that almost
On 6/6/08, Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:54:13 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gm
gpl faq is pretty clear on this one:
If the modules are included in the same executable file, they are
definitely combined in one program. If modules are
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Wang Mengqiang wrote:
Theodore Kilgore,
Thank you for your ardent reply.
I feel your earnest expectation to improve the communication with hardware
manufacture. But, very sorry, I am afraid I have no ability to take this
responsibility.
Thank you sharing the
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:26:04 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
no, the GPL is all about derivative works and combining code, it makes
no difference the direction:
You are probably right, the closest entry in the faq that describes this
situation
seems to be
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:36:39 +0200
Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:26:04 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
no, the GPL is all about derivative works and combining code, it makes
no difference the direction:
You are probably
On 6/6/08, Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:36:39 +0200
Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:26:04 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
no, the GPL is all about derivative works and
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:10:52 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
yes- this seems reasonable, however, this 'program' cannot be derived
from existing GPL'd software that does not already have this added
permission, because that would change the original program's license
without
On 6/6/08, Alessandro Zummo azummo-lists at towertech.it wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:10:52 -0400
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
yes- this seems reasonable, however, this 'program' cannot be derived
from existing GPL'd software that does not already have this added
On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:10:52AM -0400, m. allan noah wrote:
3. you can write a partly free backend, that dynamically links to the
closed parts, provided that you place a license exception in the free
part allowing said linking. you cannot use any code from SANE, other
than sane.h and the
Hello, everyone,
My name is Wang mengqiang, I am expecting to get your help on development very
much.
I am investigating to develop a commerce driver on linux. I have studied the
sane project for some time. And, we are planning to develop the driver on sane.
But, I have some doubts on
Thank you for your reply and truth.
Hello,
On Jun 4 21:02 m. allan noah wrote (shortened):
SANE is GPL, with an added exception to allow proprietary front-end
programs to link against it. What you are suggesting is the opposite-
you wish to have a free 'middleware' layer, which loads closed
backends to do that actual work? I
Hello,
On 5 Jun 08 08:28, Wang Mengqiang wrote:
1) In the development, we plan to use several special modules which do not
contain any open source code from sane or other party, because they contain
some tecnology that we do not want to open.
May I ask what functionality is contained in
Hello,
On Jun 5 15:55 Daniel Gl?ckner wrote (shortened):
It may sound naive, but usually a scanner driver just needs to write some
registers and accept the incoming image data.
I don't see what needs to be hidden in that process.
...
Maybe it is possible to make your driver compile with a
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Johannes Meixner jsmeix at suse.de wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 4 21:02 m. allan noah wrote (shortened):
SANE is GPL, with an added exception to allow proprietary front-end
programs to link against it. What you are suggesting is the opposite-
you wish to have a free
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:02:08 +0800
Wang Mengqiang WangMengqiang at canon-ib.com.cn wrote:
Thank you for your reply and truth.
From your reply, it seems there is no way to use other modules, for example,
if we buy some modules from other company without source code, how to deal
with it?
Wang Mengqiang,
I am not one of the regular SANE developers, but I am quite active in
another, similar project, Gphoto, which supports digital still cameras. I
find this thread interesting because it raises issues which affect us all.
I hope very much that the SANE developers will not mind if
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