Hello,
On Nov 8 10:06 stef wrote (shortened):
as a proof of concept, I have made 2 different versions of SANE
coexisting on my system.
...
I have created a meta backend which is a copy of dll.c,
but that searches only backends with a major of 1 and has no
preloaded backends. I added the
Le Tuesday 11 November 2008 10:38:48 Johannes Meixner, vous avez ?crit?:
Hello,
On Nov 8 10:06 stef wrote (shortened):
as a proof of concept, I have made 2 different versions of SANE
coexisting on my system.
...
I have created a meta backend which is a copy of dll.c,
but that
Le Thursday 06 November 2008 21:43:26 stef, vous avez ?crit?:
Le Thursday 06 November 2008 11:01:40 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
to define a way both version can coexist we have to knowwhat
are the
cases which lead to this coexistence on a
stef stef.dev at free.fr writes:
Le Thursday 06 November 2008 03:14:28 Olaf Meeuwissen, vous avez ?crit?:
...
They can't use these version 2 backends if they're stuck with a
version 1 frontend. Hence the need for support for a scenario where
you have both version 1 and version 2 backends
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Sanity is not the problem. The extreme need to make a release, coupled
with limited developer resources is the problem. Lets bump the
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Olaf Meeuwissen
olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Le Thursday 06 November 2008 03:14:28 Olaf Meeuwissen, vous avez ?crit?:
...
They can't use these version 2 backends if they're stuck with a
version 1 frontend. Hence the need for support for a scenario where
you have both version 1 and version 2 backends installed.
Hello,
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
Hi,
The mixed version installations is something that distribution will
care about. A lot. Any distribution people hanging around that want
to chime in here?
/me raises both hands
Oh, wait.
JB.
--
Julien BLACHE
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
to define a way both version can coexist we have to knowwhat
are the cases
which lead to this coexistence on a system. In my -possibly simplistic- view,
since any out of tree backend only needs a mere recompile to get in sync, I
don't see at
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
to define a way both version can coexist we have to knowwhat
are the cases
which lead to this coexistence on a system. In my -possibly simplistic- view,
since any out of tree
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
samsung MFP backend. No sources. No maintainer. No hope for an update
anytime soon. Shitload of users.
what do its soname symlinks look like?
:/usr/lib/sane% ls *mfp*
libsane-smfp.so.1 libsane-smfp.so.1.0.1
JB.
--
Julien BLACHE
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
but no plain .so symlink?
Let me check the installer. I installed this one by cracking the
installer open, binary-patching the backend so it won't
segfault if not run by
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
ok, so if dll backend just tries to open [backendname].so, and ignores
Uh. Don't do that.
JB.
--
Julien BLACHE http://www.jblache.org
jb at jblache.org GPG KeyID 0xF5D65169
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
ok, so if dll backend just tries to open [backendname].so, and ignores
Uh. Don't do that.
What is the point of the plain .so name if you can't use it?
allan
--
The truth is
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
What is the point of the plain .so name if you can't use it?
Linking against a specific backend, loading a specific backend from
the frontend directly, etc.
And what's the point in having versionned backends if you discard
the version?
Make the dll
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
What is the point of the plain .so name if you can't use it?
Linking against a specific backend, loading a specific backend from
the frontend directly, etc.
And what's the
Sorry for jumping into the discussion but why don't we use
sane_get_option_descriptor() / sane_control_option() on a new
predefined option, for example, sane-version-features, which could
be read by a frontend and if, no error occured, set to required SANE
API level (aka. additional features
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Please, describe for us how adding a new function to v2 backends is
going to make it easier for v1 and v2 backends to be installed at the
same time.
Tweaks to dll are needed in both cases. Except in your case you're
again trying to take an easy route
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Please, describe for us how adding a new function to v2 backends is
going to make it easier for v1 and v2 backends to be installed at the
same time.
Tweaks to dll are needed in
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Ilia Sotnikov hostcc at gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for jumping into the discussion but why don't we use
sane_get_option_descriptor() / sane_control_option() on a new
predefined option, for example, sane-version-features, which could
be read by a frontend and if, no
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
My biggest concerns are those raised by Olaf- how do the two versions
coexist. I will bet you that the solution we come up with will be
EXACTLY the same, whether we add your new function or not. So, i want
No, if we go and add an optional status
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
My biggest concerns are those raised by Olaf- how do the two versions
coexist. I will bet you that the solution we come up with will be
EXACTLY the same, whether we add
Hello,
On Nov 6 08:44 Olaf Meeuwissen wrote (shortened):
- will a version 2 dll backend still load version 1 backends?
- can version 2 frontends use version 1 backends?
- will version 1 frontends do the right thing with all version 2
backends?
- can everyone find the right match
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
but- as you have said several times in this thread, what about
frontends that link to the backend, bypassing dll? They might get a
frame-type they have never heard of, all while the backend says it
follows major version 1, which the standard says
sorry julien, should have included list
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:06 PM, m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
but- as you have said several times in this thread, what
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
In fact, adding a function is worse that i first though. A recent
frontend could connect directly to an old backend, inspect the version
number just like the standard says, and
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
In fact, adding a function is worse that i first though. A recent
frontend could connect directly to an old backend, inspect the version
number just like the standard says, and then call sane_status(). Bam!
This never happens with our current design,
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
ok, so how can a front-end know that it has connected to a 1.0
backend, since the sane standard states that the minor and point
release number are completely under the control of the backend? You
want to make the minor number do exactly what the
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
ok, so how can a front-end know that it has connected to a 1.0
backend, since the sane standard states that the minor and point
release number are completely under the control of
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
As long as older frontends don't have to care about running with a
newer lib, there's no reason to bump the major.
10 mails ago you chewed me out for not thinking about the ecosystem,
and now you mean to ignore half of it?
WTF??? I say older
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
As long as older frontends don't have to care about running with a
newer lib, there's no reason to bump the major.
10 mails ago you chewed me out for not thinking about the
Le Thursday 06 November 2008 11:01:40 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
to define a way both version can coexist we have to knowwhat
are the
cases which lead to this coexistence on a system. In my -possibly
simplistic- view, since any out of
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
damnit julien- it is called sane_status!, you dont get to declare that
'its not really a status, so lets not put statuses in it' it is just
like SANE_STATUS_BUSY, where a
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Sanity is not the problem. The extreme need to make a release, coupled
with limited developer resources is the problem. Lets bump the version
everywhere to 2.
Sanity and consistency of the API and its behaviour is the problem.
And I just can't
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Sanity is not the problem. The extreme need to make a release, coupled
with limited developer resources is the problem. Lets bump the version
everywhere to 2.
Sanity and
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
This is YOUR opinion.
Yeah, right. Go ahead, break it to pieces, I don't care anymore.
JB.
--
Julien BLACHE http://www.jblache.org
jb at jblache.org GPG KeyID 0xF5D65169
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Olaf Meeuwissen
olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com writes:
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Sanity is not the problem. The extreme need to
Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org writes:
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
Hi,
Whenever a frontend built against SANE 1.0 receive one of the new
status, it
shows the error properly. Like SANE_STATUS_COVER_OPEN, JAMMED or NO_DOCS, in
case of SANE_STATUS_WARMING_UP user has to correct
stef stef.dev at free.fr writes:
Le Wednesday 29 October 2008 19:59:09 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
Nicolas Martin nicolas.martin at freesurf.fr wrote:
...
Also calling the current CVS SANE 2.0 is really a bad joke given
there's only very little changes compared to SANE 1.0. I don't
Le Monday 03 November 2008 11:04:09 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
Hi,
Whenever a frontend built against SANE 1.0 receive one of the new
status, it shows the error properly. Like SANE_STATUS_COVER_OPEN, JAMMED
or NO_DOCS, in case of
Le Tuesday 04 November 2008 03:02:07 Olaf Meeuwissen, vous avez ?crit?:
stef stef.dev at free.fr writes:
Le Wednesday 29 October 2008 19:59:09 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
Nicolas Martin nicolas.martin at freesurf.fr wrote:
...
Also calling the current CVS SANE 2.0 is really a bad
stef stef.dev at free.fr writes:
Le Tuesday 04 November 2008 03:02:07 Olaf Meeuwissen, vous avez ?crit?:
stef stef.dev at free.fr writes:
Le Wednesday 29 October 2008 19:59:09 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
Nicolas Martin nicolas.martin at freesurf.fr wrote:
...
Also calling the
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
Hi,
I have a frontend that calls sane_cancel() and throws an exception
(and no plans to fix that any time real soon).
The problem with the warming up thing is that it is not an error,
it's a /transient/ *status* that clears itself up with
Le Tuesday 04 November 2008 11:57:15 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
Olaf Meeuwissen olaf.meeuwissen at avasys.jp wrote:
Hi,
I have a frontend that calls sane_cancel() and throws an exception
(and no plans to fix that any time real soon).
The problem with the warming up thing is that it
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
Hi,
I agree with the design you are explaining. But the trouble with such
approach is that adding new function to the API had been rejected so that
many unmaintained (or untestable due to lack of hardware) backends can be
That's actually not an
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Julien BLACHE jb at jblache.org wrote:
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
Hi,
I agree with the design you are explaining. But the trouble with such
approach is that adding new function to the API had been rejected so that
many unmaintained (or untestable
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
damnit julien- it is called sane_status!, you dont get to declare that
'its not really a status, so lets not put statuses in it' it is just
like SANE_STATUS_BUSY, where a backend might very well choose to retry
after a few seconds.
Hmm,
Le Wednesday 29 October 2008 19:59:09 Julien BLACHE, vous avez ?crit?:
Nicolas Martin nicolas.martin at freesurf.fr wrote:
...
Also calling the current CVS SANE 2.0 is really a bad joke given
there's only very little changes compared to SANE 1.0. I don't think
it's warranted and I don't
stef stef.dev at free.fr wrote:
Hi,
Whenever a frontend built against SANE 1.0 receive one of the new
status, it
shows the error properly. Like SANE_STATUS_COVER_OPEN, JAMMED or NO_DOCS, in
case of SANE_STATUS_WARMING_UP user has to correct the error condition (in
this case just
My concern was not too much about the release number or name, but a
focus on: have we some kind of schedule or forecast for a new Sane
release ?
Some very popular Linux distribution have releases twice a year, and I
think this could be also a convenient rate for Sane too, to keep in sync
with
Hallo,
On 2008-10-29 08:26, Nicolas Martin wrote:
My concern was not too much about the release number or name, but a
focus on: have we some kind of schedule or forecast for a new Sane
release ?
Some very popular Linux distribution have releases twice a year, and I
think this could be also a
i am inclined to agree with stef for 3 reasons:
1. it involves the least amount of code change.
2. it keeps the soversion and major number in sync, which is more
obvious to frontend authors.
3. i am not worried about bringing out sane3 quickly. if history be
our guide, that is years away.
allan
I would agree if ... we had a particular goal or specification to
reach, but not sure Sane is developed in this spirit.
Sane is in a perpetual evolution process, and is IMHO ... never
?ready, with 0 bugs?.
Newer scanner models come in, newer or upgraded backends come out, in
a continuous
Nicolas Martin nicolas.martin at freesurf.fr wrote:
Hi,
I would agree if ... we had a particular goal or specification to
reach, but not sure Sane is developed in this spirit.
Sane is in a perpetual evolution process, and is IMHO ... never
?ready, with 0 bugs?.
Then s/bugs/regressions/
Le Tuesday 28 October 2008 08:49:38 Ren? Kjellerup, vous avez ?crit?:
IIRC the version bumb to 1.0.19 was opted for
Instead of the minor version bumb.
Hello,
I have seen no such conclusion.
Kind Regards
Ren? Kjellerup
In order to have a clear picture of what
Is there any new schedule forecast for a Sane 1.1.0 release ?
(last timetable I had in mind was a release during last July)
Nicolas
I've had guests this weekend, which has prevented me from committing
some pending changes, and doing various release-related work. We've
also seen some changes come in from other devels, and have a pending
regression fix for one backend. As such, I am going to hold off the
release until next
m. allan noah kitno455 at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
can you make me a project admin on alioth so i can update those pages?
I've added you as a project admin, if you need help for the release,
feel free to ask me.
JB.
--
Julien BLACHE http://www.jblache.org
jb
It's been 15 months since SANE 1.0.18 was released. In that time,
we've had a few new backends added, many bugs fixed and new models
supported.
With Henning being so busy, I am offering to take the lead on
releasing 1.0.19. However, I will need some handholding, so if Henning
(or anyone else for
Hi,
On 2007-11-15 13:58, m. allan noah wrote:
It's been 15 months since SANE 1.0.18 was released. In that time,
we've had a few new backends added, many bugs fixed and new models
supported.
Good idea to make a new release!
With Henning being so busy, I am offering to take the lead on
can you make me a project admin on alioth so i can update those pages?
allan
On Nov 15, 2007 3:35 PM, Henning Geinitz sane at geinitz.org wrote:
Hi,
On 2007-11-15 13:58, m. allan noah wrote:
It's been 15 months since SANE 1.0.18 was released. In that time,
we've had a few new backends
Hi,
This would be very nice to have a release allowing major distros to ship
with updated SANE for next spring. Ubuntu ships CVS version of SANE
(2007-05-05). There is definitily a needs for a new release.
Regards,
?tienne
--
E Ultre?a !
?tienne Bersac bersace at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
This would be very nice to have a release allowing major distros to ship
with updated SANE for next spring. Ubuntu ships CVS version of SANE
(2007-05-05). There is definitily a needs for a new release.
As far as Ubuntu goes, they're just
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