[Soc-coordination] SummerOfCode2013/Projects
There are (only) 8 projects by far? ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
Hi Russ, On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 03:03:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: Ana Guerrero a...@debian.org writes: - For some DDs in previous years, this seemed to be a way to have students doing stuff from their TODO lists... Just a quick note on this part: I don't think this is inherently a bad idea, although of course it should be something the student is also excited about. But I remember what I was like when I was in high school: I really wanted to program, but I was horrible at coming up with useful things to do. I needed a good problem stream that I could work on and then I enjoyed finding ways to solve the problems. Not everyone is like that, of course, but I do think there are people out there who just want to put skills to use and learn how to do new things but don't know how to select good and useful problems to work on. On the general topic of mentoring, though, I think one of the hardest parts of helping new people join the project is that people need to start with relatively easy tasks so that they can get their feet wet. That often means that one needs to step back and let new people do things that are easy for the mentor, which in turn means leaving easy work undone for long enough to give people a chance to do it. I see your point. In these cases, the mentor was more treating the GSoC program as a bounty program or a way to have contractors paid at the expense of somebody else. It wasn't a real mentoring scheme. This kind of mentoring let's package this new software stack (and create a team to maintain it, when it doesn't exist) doesn't need to happen inside the GSoC, it can happen already in Debian. In fact, some Debian teams already do this, but fail to announce it clearly. When an interested user ask, we tend to say: if you want new version of X in Debian, we need help instead of we welcome new contributors. If you don't have a lot of experience, don't worry, we'll mentor you! Please take a look at this and if you can questions mails us to X and/or join us in IRC or something along these lines :) Ana ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
On 12/03/13 at 14:14 +0100, Ana Guerrero wrote: Hi Russ, On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 03:03:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: Ana Guerrero a...@debian.org writes: - For some DDs in previous years, this seemed to be a way to have students doing stuff from their TODO lists... Just a quick note on this part: I don't think this is inherently a bad idea, although of course it should be something the student is also excited about. But I remember what I was like when I was in high school: I really wanted to program, but I was horrible at coming up with useful things to do. I needed a good problem stream that I could work on and then I enjoyed finding ways to solve the problems. Not everyone is like that, of course, but I do think there are people out there who just want to put skills to use and learn how to do new things but don't know how to select good and useful problems to work on. On the general topic of mentoring, though, I think one of the hardest parts of helping new people join the project is that people need to start with relatively easy tasks so that they can get their feet wet. That often means that one needs to step back and let new people do things that are easy for the mentor, which in turn means leaving easy work undone for long enough to give people a chance to do it. I see your point. In these cases, the mentor was more treating the GSoC program as a bounty program or a way to have contractors paid at the expense of somebody else. It wasn't a real mentoring scheme. This kind of mentoring let's package this new software stack (and create a team to maintain it, when it doesn't exist) doesn't need to happen inside the GSoC, it can happen already in Debian. Nothing really needs to happen inside GSoC. But GSoC provide several advantages: - there's a rigid framework (deadlines, etc) that help the student organize and focus - the student gets paid by Google - the student gets to mention both Debian and Google on his CV, which is probably seen positively by future recruiters. Lucas ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:55:42 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: schools/seminars -- Ubuntu does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek - a set of seminars on IRC to teach Ubuntu development. I'm not sure of how useful that is (I've never attended it) and if we should do it too. AFAIK we don't do that inside Debian. But I thought it was worth mentioning. There have been some IRC Training Sessions organized by the Debian Women team: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Projects/Events/TrainingSessions Cheers, gregor -- .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe `- NP: Bob Dylan: It's All Good signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
Hi Ana, On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 14:14 +0100, Ana Guerrero wrote: I see your point. In these cases, the mentor was more treating the GSoC program as a bounty program or a way to have contractors paid at the expense of somebody else. It wasn't a real mentoring scheme. This kind of mentoring let's package this new software stack (and create a team to maintain it, when it doesn't exist) doesn't need to happen inside the GSoC, it can happen already in Debian. In fact, some Debian teams already do this, but fail to announce it clearly. When an interested user ask, we tend to say: if you want new version of X in Debian, we need help instead of we welcome new contributors. If you don't have a lot of experience, don't worry, we'll mentor you! Please take a look at this and if you can questions mails us to X and/or join us in IRC or something along these lines :) Would you mind elaborating on this? The background to this is that I am currently considering mentoring the Leiningen Clojure packaging project [0] and your comments make me think twice about commiting to this. I thought that the proposal has merit and would allow an interested student to gather valuable insights into Debian and its packaging infrastructure or tooling. [0] http://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2013/Projects#Leiningen_.26_Clojure_packaging -- Wolodja deb...@babilen5.org 4096R/CAF14EFC 081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA 36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
On Tue 12 Mar 2013 17:56:10 Ana Guerrero escribió: [snip] Yeah, and also the GSoC have a huge disadvantage, it is available only to a tiny small percentage of the population who have the privilege of getting a higher education, then only if their school load and life responsibilities allow them to participate in the program. Without taking into account that summer is happening just in the northern hemisphere. In the remaining of the globe, we are not on holidays. -- Esperando confirmación de ingredientes necesarios que serán expuestos a la radiación... Manera geek de expresar que se espera la compra de carne para un típico asado argentino. Silvio Rikemberg. Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer http://perezmeyer.com.ar/ http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
Hi, On 12/03/13 at 21:56 +0100, Ana Guerrero wrote: On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 07:50:27PM +0100, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 12/03/13 at 14:14 +0100, Ana Guerrero wrote: .. This kind of mentoring let's package this new software stack (and create a team to maintain it, when it doesn't exist) doesn't need to happen inside the GSoC, it can happen already in Debian. Nothing really needs to happen inside GSoC. But GSoC provide several advantages: - there's a rigid framework (deadlines, etc) that help the student organize and focus - the student gets paid by Google - the student gets to mention both Debian and Google on his CV, which is probably seen positively by future recruiters. Yeah, and also the GSoC have a huge disadvantage, it is available only to a tiny small percentage of the population who have the privilege of getting a higher education, then only if their school load and life responsibilities allow them to participate in the program. It would also be good for us to encourage our own programs to a wider and diverse population, instead of relying exclusively on the rules set by a non-free-software company. And assuming that students want non-free-software companies on their CV. Your whole point here somehow seems to be against this internship idea While you seemed to agree previously that all of these internship-like things (GSoC, NM, team-trainee, ...) are good. You wrote: This kind of mentoring let's package this new software stack [..] doesn't need to happen inside the GSoC, it can happen already in Debian. I agree that this kind of mentoring can happen already in Debian, but that's not a reason not to do it in GSoC. I was pointing that GSoC offers several advantages that might not be easy to offer in other programs. I think that it would be better to talk about mentoring schemes rather than internship-like things. I'm not sure if it's a cultural issue, but in my mind, internship go with working full time. I think that it's good to have a wide variety of mentoring schemes, to address different needs and possibilities, in terms of available time, of status, of focus, etc. And I also think that in terms of internship programs (=~ full-time work inside the project during the summer), we should explore joining other programs and/or creating our own. Lucas ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
Re: [Soc-coordination] mentoring programs in Debian
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Ubuntu does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek - a set of seminars on IRC to teach Ubuntu development. I'm not sure of how useful that is (I've never attended it) and if we should do it too. AFAIK we don't do that inside Debian. But I thought it was worth mentioning. In Debian we mostly do continuous mentoring on all topics on the debian-mentors IRC channel and mailing list rather than specific sessions at specific times. I guess some folks learn better the other way and might benefit better from specific sessions so it might be interesting to do both. I'm not sure about the full week part though, maybe something more continuous would be good. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise ___ Soc-coordination mailing list Soc-coordination@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/soc-coordination
