Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

There has been a tremendous amount of participation on this thread, with some extremely thoughtful analysis of how the mailing list serves the community and the tradeoffs of moving to a forum, like Discourse. I've been thinking about the points made on this thread as well as looking at the

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> On Feb 7, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Tino Heth <2...@gmx.de > >> wrote: >> >>> Believe it or not, not everyone in the world can afford the device and data >>> plan for a

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Tino Heth <2...@gmx.de> wrote: > >> Believe it or not, not everyone in the world can afford the device and data >> plan for a JavaScript-rich web front end (I'm aware of the mobile apps). I >> remember only being able to buy an iPod Touch myself when it came out.

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Tino Heth via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > Believe it or not, not everyone in the world can afford the device and > data plan for a JavaScript-rich web front end (I'm aware of the mobile > apps). I remember only being able to buy an iPod

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> Believe it or not, not everyone in the world can afford the device and data > plan for a JavaScript-rich web front end (I'm aware of the mobile apps). I > remember only being able to buy an iPod Touch myself when it came out. I > *would* be able to participate SE if it existed back then.

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Turns out it’s possible to retroactively participate a thread that one hasn’t subscribed to. An example of it happening is here: https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20170206/031544.html

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Ok, super off topic but since it's Apple after all... Email was considered ancient even back at 2007, when the iPhone was lunched and yet someone at Apple decided it was an important enough channel to use it's scale as a promotional channel with the "Sent from my iPhone", this persists to this

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> I’d encourage those who want web forums to give Mail.app a try. It does a > remarkable job of keeping emails threaded. That doesn't read like we are using the same Mail.app… it's not failing on a regular basis for me, but it's far away from being remarkable (at least not remarkably good).

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I believe it will be prettyhard to find a solution that fits everyone’s workflow and habits considering the size of the community. The chance we have is that communication systems tends to be very flexible nowadays. Can we imagine some way to have multiple supports integrated ? I can see tools

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

on Mon Feb 06 2017, Jacob Bandes-Storch wrote: > Gmail does the same; I wonder if it's a Mailman feature/bug that triggers > the splitting. Many mail clients don't properly use the References: header to assemble threads, instead using subject lines. I use Gnus and

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Gmail does the same; I wonder if it's a Mailman feature/bug that triggers the splitting. On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:59 PM Charles Srstka via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > Oh, Mail messes up the grouping of them quite a lot in my experience. > Whenever we get one of those

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Oh, Mail messes up the grouping of them quite a lot in my experience. Whenever we get one of those epic, super controversial threads with tons of posts in them, it’s almost guaranteed to split into two or three parallel threads, on my machine anyway. Charles > On Feb 6, 2017, at 6:45 PM,

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Terribly sorry for spamming. This will be the last one. I've added the `In-Reply-To` header to thunderbird and included the correct (hopefully!) value from a previous, on-thread message. This email address was not subscribed to the thread. ___

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Here's attempt #2 from Thunderbird. ___ swift-evolution mailing list swift-evolution@swift.org https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Here’s my attempt to chime in an existing thread from a newly subscribed email address. > This may help > > http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/23197/reply-to-mailman-archived-message > >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Mail.app grouped it in the correct thread (further proves that email clients are awesome ). Unfortunately mailman did not do so. > On Feb 6, 2017, at 4:40 PM, James Berry wrote: > >> On Feb 6, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 6, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution > wrote: > > I’ve been wondering about this for a while. What heuristic does mailman use > to group emails? It this really impossible even if the title, email body, > recipient all fits as if it’s from a

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I’ve been wondering about this for a while. What heuristic does mailman use to group emails? It this really impossible even if the title, email body, recipient all fits as if it’s from a existing subscriber? > On Feb 6, 2017, at 4:12 PM, Xiaodi Wu wrote: > > No, as you

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

No, as you define it, they're not mutually exclusive. But maintaining the option to reply to a thread at an indeterminate point in the future when you finally get around to reading _is_ essentially mutually exclusive to not storing a copy of every email sent to the mailing list on your email

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 6, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Xiaodi Wu wrote: > > Agree strongly. > > It is true, however, that a major pain point of the mailing list format is > that it is not apparent how to join an ongoing thread unless you are already > subscribed to the list. Thus, an occasional

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Agree strongly. It is true, however, that a major pain point of the mailing list format is that it is not apparent how to join an ongoing thread unless you are already subscribed to the list. Thus, an occasional contributor must choose between subscribing and setting up dedicated filters for

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 6, 2017, at 3:02 PM, Chris Hanson via swift-evolution > wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:24 PM, James Berry via swift-evolution > > wrote: >> >> Speaking for myself only, discourse seems to give

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:24 PM, James Berry via swift-evolution wrote: > > Speaking for myself only, discourse seems to give me little of value, while > it would plaster emails with html-laden buttons, etc, thus making my favored > experience worse than it is today. I’m

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I notice Discourse doesn't display indentation in the HTML archives of plain text messages, which is a major loss for any forum that discusses code. :-( -- -Dave ___ swift-evolution mailing list swift-evolution@swift.org

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

+1 Its really hard to keep track of mails and threads. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 23, 2017, at 18:59, Joshua Alvarado via swift-evolution > wrote: > > It will be painted! ;) > > So far we have: > +2 Disclosure > +1 Slack > +1 Issue tracker > > Let's really get

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I'm coming around to the idea of discourse, mainly because that would allow providing a consistent display of the discussion and not having every subscriber reinvent the way he wants to see threaded discussion, quotations and code samples. As discourse supports mailing list mode, which would allow

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

After trying out Nate Cook’s Discourse test server I’d like to add a few things on my previous message: #1 I found the beginning of this threads discussion without any problems (both from navigating through the threads structure and from the search feature) which was interesting for me, as I

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On 26 Jan 2017, at 18:02, Nate Cook wrote: > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Douglas Gregor wrote: >> >> I’ve looked into Discourse a bit, and it does look very promising. One >> *specific* way in which a motivated individual could help would be to take a >> look at Discourse’s import

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I’m not a fan of moving to a forum or equivalent, however, I’m coming round to the idea. I’d be fine with it as long as the following features were included: * configurable so that I am emailed all new topics and new posts (or RSS equivalent) * Support for markdown, ideally the GitHub dialect

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

One feature is I need the ability to bookmark where I stop reading during the journey or trip. A few contributors keep replying with quoted message ate up my mobile data usage significantly especially this thread is getting a long discussion is hard to read on a small screen and I don't use email

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> In a mailing list format, everyone is free to start a new thread. Would a forum have a privilege system that stops newbies from starting threads? I've seen no one proposing that. > Whether you invented the language or started learning it yesterday, if you > have a new idea, it comes into

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 9:56 PM, Erica Sadun wrote: > > >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 10:29 PM, Ted kremenek wrote: >> >> >> >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Karl Wagner wrote: >> >>> On 3 Feb 2017, at 02:55, Ted kremenek

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 10:29 PM, Ted kremenek wrote: > > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Karl Wagner > wrote: > >> >>> On 3 Feb 2017, at 02:55, Ted kremenek >> > wrote: >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 7:23 PM, Xiaodi Wu wrote: > > Great, but let's continue discussing what the needs and aspirations of the > community are and what our non-goals are, then study what platforms best fit > those. It sure sounds nice that Discourse can be set up as a

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Xiaodi Wu wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Ted kremenek via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:36 PM, Karl Wagner wrote: > > >> On 3 Feb 2017, at 02:55, Ted kremenek wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>> >>> Personally I think that's

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

hi sorry about this message just now, i realize the tone comes across a bit short to say the least. buttons were mashed incorrectly and far too soon. again, my apologies. -z (sent from my phone) > On Feb 2, 2017, at 8:12 PM, Zach Drayer wrote: > > > > > >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

(sent from my phone) > On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:15 PM, James Berry via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Nevin Brackett-Rozinsky via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> Where do you propose to hold and publicize

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Great, but let's continue discussing what the needs and aspirations of the community are and what our non-goals are, then study what platforms best fit those. It sure sounds nice that Discourse can be set up as a mailing list, and that it can have extra voting dingbats or none at all, etc., etc.

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Ted kremenek via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution < >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Ted kremenek via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution < > swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > > It's at least worth a beta test. > > > There are real concerns to work out here — just

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On 3 Feb 2017, at 02:55, Ted kremenek wrote: > > > > On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution > > wrote: > >> Personally I think that's an absurd reason not to move to a forum. What is >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution > wrote: > > It's at least worth a beta test. There are real concerns to work out here — just moving to the forum blindly would be bad if it is highly disruptive to the community having important

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Personally I think that's an absurd reason not to move to a forum. What is > your complaint? That it's _too_ inclusive? That others only have trivial > things to say? Frankly, every way I

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

My complaint is really that these discussions have been good on for a year and we seem to get in to cyclical debates on how it *might* be, but I'd like to see us make a serious effort to try it. There are some really big discussions happening right now (e.g. the String model),

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I thought Discourse had a mailing list gateway, such that each topic in Discourse would be the subject of an email, and replies to the "list" would append to the topic in Discourse, while subscribers to the mailing list would get messages for each post. I guess that's harder with styled text,

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Is there any reason we should keep holding back from giving Discourse a **real** try? Most arguments I read were pointed at filtering/flagging issues, or at how the focus of the discussions could change. I’ve only tried Discourse once, but to the best of my knowledge, it totally addresses the

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Nevin Brackett-Rozinsky via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Where do you propose to hold and publicize such a vote in order that the > people who would participate on a forum but not on a mailing list—ie. those > for whom the switch will

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I can only say how I perceive the mailing list from my own perspective: The mailing list is a really confusing way of following the discussions for me. I never know the context of an answer since my mail clients don’t show the quoted parts correctly. Also I get a lot of emails throughout the

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Where do you propose to hold and publicize such a vote in order that the people who would participate on a forum but not on a mailing list—ie. those for whom the switch will be most beneficial—are enfranchised? Nevin On Thursday, February 2, 2017, James Berry wrote: > >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > >> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner wrote: >> >> somebody build a parallel site to support the style of open community which >> the core-team seem

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Karl Wagner wrote: > > somebody build a parallel site to support the style of open community which > the core-team seem unwilling/unable to do. I don't think this is fair. We may not be moving as quickly as you'd like but we are looking

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

It discourages trivial contributions in theory only. In practice there is no difference. I see plenty of one-line comments and corrections. Take a look at any reasonably long thread on here and I'm sure you'll see the same. Personally I think that's an absurd reason not to move to a

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Anything that encourages people to participate is a good thing in my book. Mailing lists are nice, but also not a thing many people are comfortable with. A system that better supports threads means there is less of a cost to people having a back-and-forth than there is today, which also seems

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> A mailing list discourages off-topic and trivial contributions. I could > easily see being sent dozens of emails from a single back and forth. > Increased traffic would force most users to migrate from email to direct > Discourse forums and direct forum use loses the ability to flag,

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Feb 1, 2017, at 4:34 AM, David Hart via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > > On 1 Feb 2017, at 06:59, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > > wrote: > >> While I'm not really happy with the mailing

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

This morning I received an email from Discourse titled "[Swift Discussions (Unofficial Test)] Summary". Since this message was sent to my email address personally, rather than to the swift-evolution address, it appears that my email address was exported from this list and imported into Discourse.

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I for one absolutely dislike using mail clients. The mail is a relic of the past that should burn in hell! Jokes aside, I actually find it very difficult to keep track of the threads. I often end up having my client sorting the messages of one thread in a different group, probably because the

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On 25 Jan 2017, at 23:34, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> I have no problem with the project moving to forums instead of the Mailman >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On 1 Feb 2017, at 06:59, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > While I'm not really happy with the mailing list, this is mostly due to > restrictions of iOS Mail which makes keeping track of relevant threads and > filtering out threads I'm not

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

While I'm not really happy with the mailing list, this is mostly due to restrictions of iOS Mail which makes keeping track of relevant threads and filtering out threads I'm not interested in difficult. The mailing list has one important advantage over a web interface: most of my reading

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Hello Ted, I would actually be quite happy if we did rely on both JIRA and Discourse/forum for the different kinds of discussions as you were saying: sometimes I do believe that it is preferable to specialise more rather than add unwanted noise or inefficiency to a forced universal approach:

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 27, 2017, at 4:21 PM, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> On 27 Jan 2017, at 02:10, Derrick Ho via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> I'm surprised there is so little support for JIRA. Anyone think it's a bad >> tool

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Plus (heart), but not minus. Although it looks like someone has written a plugin for this: https://meta.discourse.org/t/retort-a-reaction-style-plugin-for-discourse/35903 On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Derrick Ho via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > Does Discourse allow

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Does Discourse allow stuff to be "plus-one-ed"? I like how Reddit has this feature and I notice that many people on this mailing list either -1 or +1 something. I feel like it is very democratic. On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:52 AM Rudolf Adamkovič via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

+1 for either e-mail or GitHub issues. No need for yet another tool... R+ > On 28 Jan 2017, at 01:21, Karl Wagner via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> On 27 Jan 2017, at 02:10, Derrick Ho via swift-evolution >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On 27 Jan 2017, at 02:10, Derrick Ho via swift-evolution > wrote: > > I'm surprised there is so little support for JIRA. Anyone think it's a bad > tool for the job? > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:38 PM Nevin Brackett-Rozinsky via swift-evolution >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Actually, several projects (Mozilla and WebKit spring to mind) both have historically had issue trackers as an essential organization tool, for just about everything from planning a new feature to organizing T-Shirt sizes for user meet ups. Issue trackers work really well for proposals as

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

That is a so so reason though ;). JIRA can be a discussion hub and it should be used for discussion centred around user stories, bugs, etc... it is a delivery planning/agile planning tool not a mailing list or a forum for general discussion. Creating stories/items to discuss bugs, a proposal

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

UX: *---EmailJIRADiscourse>  On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Derrick Ho via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > I'm surprised there is so little support for JIRA. Anyone think it's a bad > tool for the job? > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:38 PM Nevin

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I'm surprised there is so little support for JIRA. Anyone think it's a bad tool for the job? On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:38 PM Nevin Brackett-Rozinsky via swift-evolution wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution < >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > I haven't yet seen a good answer to the question: who is going to put in > the long-term commitment to host and maintain a replacement solution, > moderate forums, make technical upgrades and

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

This is amazing! It solved the biggest complaint a few of us have with the current archive! > On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Tyler Stromberg via swift-evolution > wrote: > > on Thu Jan 26 2017, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > on Thu Jan 26 2017, Nate Cook >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

on Thu Jan 26 2017, Dave Abrahams wrote: on Thu Jan 26 2017, Nate Cook wrote: ✋ I forged the mighty, turgid rivers of rubyenv, hand-tweaked gem dependencies, and sed-cleaned mbox files to try this out—you can see the results of an import (using one or two day old data) at this address:

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 12:43 PM, James Berry via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > > Since many will likely want to continue to access the discussion via mail, > I have some questions for anybody who actually has real-life experience in > using Discourse primarily via email:

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I took some screenshots of this: http://discourse.natecook.com/t/pitch-replace-discourse-with-a-mailing-list/3052/3 We can do some further testing once we set up inbound email support. On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:58 AM David Hart via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Nate Cook via swift-evolution > wrote: > > I forged the mighty, turgid rivers of rubyenv, hand-tweaked gem dependencies, > and sed-cleaned mbox files to try this out—you can see the results of an > import (using one or two day old

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

on Thu Jan 26 2017, Adrian Zubarev wrote: > That’s exactly how almost all of your replies were displayed in my > mail-client. Yeah, I know. I've at least partly succumbed to the prevailing flow. I started to question my own careful practices several years ago when

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > It's a shame that it has no facility for hiding long quotations. Trying > to find the actual content in this thread is pretty awful: >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Not true if you quote something via the web interface. See my quote here: http://discourse.natecook.com/t/pitch-add-dark-mode-to-swift/3051 On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 12:03 PM Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > > on Thu Jan 26 2017, Nate Cook

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

C'mon this is not a concern of the developers making apps that help make this ecosystem popular and thus the devices they sell. I understand your point, but I can also understand that it is fair for a non Apple employee or non Apple stock options holder to question resources allocation. Sent

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Apple having billions of dollars, and the Swift team as a tiny part of Apple with associated resource allocations, are two completely different things. Please don't be obtuse. Best, Austin On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Charles Srstka wrote: > On Jan 26, 2017, at

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

That’s exactly how almost all of your replies were displayed in my mail-client. Combined with inlined messages it’s a nightmare to search through.  The sooner we migrate over to a forum, the better.  --  Adrian Zubarev Sent with Airmail Am 26. Januar 2017 um 21:03:48, Dave Abrahams via

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Thu Jan 26 2017, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

on Thu Jan 26 2017, Nate Cook wrote: > ✋ > > I forged the mighty, turgid rivers of rubyenv, hand-tweaked gem > dependencies, and sed-cleaned mbox files to try this out—you can see > the results of an import (using one or two day old data) at this > address: >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

on Thu Jan 26 2017, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> I'm actually convinced that I'd rather use an email client. Having to >> participate in a web app is a regression

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Awesome! I want to use this now :D Btw, for the people who prefer email: how would a system where discourse sends them the email work for them? > On 26 Jan 2017, at 19:02, Nate Cook via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Douglas Gregor via

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

For a tiny but massively important part of Apple on which they’re essentially betting the entire future of the company? Yeah, I think the world’s richest Fortune 500 company can afford to allocate the resources for a web forum. Charles > On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:30 PM, Austin Zheng

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution > wrote: > > I don't like mailing lists in particular (or, really, at all), but I haven't > yet seen a good answer to the question: who is going to put in the long-term > commitment to host and

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

If you're not going to make the barest attempt to respond to my emails with the slightest modicum of good faith I'm finished with this conversation. Have fun! Best, Austin On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Charles Srstka wrote: > For a tiny but massively important

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

+1 for keeping email, +0.25 for moving to GitHub like what Rust did. I don't like mailing lists in particular (or, really, at all), but I haven't yet seen a good answer to the question: who is going to put in the long-term commitment to host and maintain a replacement solution, moderate forums,

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Adrian Zubarev > wrote: > > There are official mobile apps for Discourse: iOS > & > Android . >

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

There are official mobile apps for Discourse: iOS & Android. I wonder how people would argue if we’d had started using a forum from the beginning and would now discuss a switch to an email list. That would be a real discussion about regression. --  Adrian Zubarev Sent with Airmail Am 26.

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Sent from my iPad > On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Daniel Duan via swift-evolution > wrote: > > I'm actually convinced that I'd rather use an email client. Having to > participate in a web app is a regression in my experience. +1. I like email way better than web

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I don't like mailing lists since it is very easy to forget about a topic. What I noticed about mailing lists is that the most controversial topics live the longest. I think swift-evolution should be able discussing the stuff that matters for the future of swift. I think the best choice for that

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I'm actually convinced that I'd rather use an email client. Having to participate in a web app is a regression in my experience. Daniel Duan Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 26, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Adrian Zubarev via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Awesome :) Hopefully

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

I would love to participate in swift evolution discussions, and I made and defended one of the proposals for Swift here (SE-0025), but using email for this is so difficult that I stopped following the list. The only thing that kept me going with that proposal was that I really really wanted the

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

Awesome :) Hopefully that will finally convince the people what ‘are working on this’ to actually make it ;) I could find some really old threads of mine in just seconds. My mail client cannot do that job that well.  Cannot wait 襤 --  Adrian Zubarev Sent with Airmail Am 26. Januar 2017 um

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> On Jan 25, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution > wrote: > >> >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution >> > wrote: >> >> I have no problem with the project

Re: [swift-evolution] [Discussion] mailing list alternative

> Le 26 janv. 2017 à 00:34, Erica Sadun via swift-evolution > a écrit : > > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Ted Kremenek via swift-evolution >> > wrote: >> >> I have no problem with the project moving to

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