Re: [whatwg] Fuzzbot (Firefox RDFa semantics processor)

2009-01-13 Thread James Graham
Giovanni Gentili wrote: James Graham: The issue when trying to abstract problems is that you can end up doing architecture astronautics; you concentrate on making generic ways to build solutions to weakly constrained problems without any attention to the details of those problems that make them

[whatwg] data-* [Was:Re: Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa]

2009-01-12 Thread James Graham
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: On 11/1/09 16:52, Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: Well, that's a chance, of course, but that's *not* RDFa as specified by W3C; for instance, @property is specified as accepting _only_ CURIEs Good point; I hadn't spotted that. It's the same with every possible

Re: [whatwg] Stability of tokenizing/dom algorithms

2008-12-15 Thread James Graham
Edward Z. Yang wrote: The reason I'd like to know this is because I am the author of a tool named HTML Purifier, which takes user-input HTML and cleans it for standards-compliance as well as XSS. We insist on output being standards compliant, because the result is unambiguous. Nothing in

[whatwg] size attribute

2008-12-02 Thread James Graham
The phrase The size attribute gives the number of characters that, in a visual rendering, the user agent is to allow the user to see while editing the element's value. is phrased misleadingly like a UA conformance criterion even though it is not. It doesn't account for the fact that a

Re: [whatwg] WebSocket support in HTML5

2008-09-21 Thread James Graham
Richard's Hotmail wrote: Hi, I've been told that this is the correct forum for lobbying/venting about html5 changes; I hope that this is correct? Er, I think it is the correct forum for discussing the spec. I'm less sure that lobbying/venting are useful forms of discussion. My particular

Re: [whatwg] RDFa Features

2008-08-29 Thread James Graham
Manu Sporny wrote: Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Kristof Zelechovski [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian's question was about what happens when it goes down forever, or gets taken over, intercepted, squatted, spoofed or redirected because

Re: [whatwg] Ghosts from the past and the semantic Web

2008-08-28 Thread James Graham
Henri Sivonen wrote: On Aug 28, 2008, at 15:00, Russell Leggett wrote: I actually think that using custom microformat-like conventions with classes or tags is really not as robust a solution as what is being attempted with RDFa (I honestly did not know much about RDFa before this

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a link attribute to replace a href

2008-07-31 Thread James Graham
-interactive) elements. On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, James Graham wrote: I think tableatr also causes problems; being able to link whole table rows seems like one of the major use cases for this proposal. Yes. I don't see how to fix that one. Given that I'm not sure making a transparent is wise. It seems

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a link attribute to replace a href

2008-07-30 Thread James Graham
Simon Pieters wrote: On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:50:18 +0200, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every now and then, the issue of a global href= attribute for all elements comes up. There are many valid use cases for this, like being able to make all cells in a table row act like a link, or

Re: [whatwg] Fwd: nav Element

2008-06-13 Thread James Graham
Jorge Bay Gondra wrote: To the correct list this time... -- Forwarded message -- From: Jorge Bay Gondra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/6/12 Subject: nav Element To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi to all, About the nav element: I was trying to imaging how it would be to build a site, and I

Re: [whatwg] ARIA

2008-03-07 Thread James Graham
Aaron Leventhal wrote: James Graham wrote: Dave Hodder wrote: The current HTML 5 draft doesn't mention ARIA anywhere. Perhaps it should clarify the relationship (or non-relationship as it is at present), even if it's only a brief mention in section 1.1. Unfortunately a brief mention

Re: [whatwg] ARIA

2008-03-07 Thread James Graham
Aaron Leventhal wrote: On the other hand for the landmark roles which specify semantics but not behavior, I would agree that sticking with HTML elements is a better approach. Even if there is associated behavior for them, such as a hotkey, they will degrade well to older user agents. OK,

Re: [whatwg] ARIA

2008-02-29 Thread James Graham
Dave Hodder wrote: The current HTML 5 draft doesn't mention ARIA anywhere. Perhaps it should clarify the relationship (or non-relationship as it is at present), even if it's only a brief mention in section 1.1. Unfortunately a brief mention is insufficient as aria functionality overlaps

[whatwg] @Irrelevant [was: Re: Thoughts on HTML 5]

2008-02-29 Thread James Graham
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like something to indicate that text should not be rendered by the UA but still remain accessible. Content that should be available to screen readers but not have a visual representation is, in fact, relevant. Indeed, which is why such content would not have

Re: [whatwg] Thoughts on HTML 5

2008-02-28 Thread James Graham
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lachlan had commented that irrelevant could be changed dynamically to indicate parts of an application that may be relevant only during particular points in time. I don't see how this is any different from hiding content that isn't necessary. Presumably a non-visual UA

Re: [whatwg] HTML 5 vs. XHTML 2.0

2008-02-12 Thread James Graham
Brian Smith wrote: Ian Hickson wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Henri Sivonen wrote: Anyway, I do think it's a problem for styling, automatic content extraction and non-CSS presentation that HTML lacks the markup for indicating which parts of the page are content proper and which are

Re: [whatwg] scope attribute on td

2008-01-31 Thread James Graham
Keryx Web wrote: James Graham skrev: FWIW the HTML 4 behavior which turns a td scope=somthing into a heading from the point of view of the UA is, in principle, useful since there are cases (particularly for row headings) where one cell is effectively both data and a heading but the formatting

Re: [whatwg] Some video questions

2008-01-29 Thread James Graham
Charles wrote: Oliver, You're basically complaining about the codec choice... No, this thread isn't about that. I'm saying that the video element doesn't solve the problem that needs solving. Read the thread again, ignore the stuff about 3rd-party QuickTime components, and

Re: [whatwg] Some video questions

2008-01-29 Thread James Graham
Charles wrote: [James] Can you explain it again, because I'm not sure I fully understand what you're trying to say and I don't seem to be the only one. The video element doesn't appear solve the problem of how to embed video content in a player- and browser- agnostic fashion. HTML 5

Re: [whatwg] scope attribute on td

2008-01-26 Thread James Graham
Simon Pieters wrote: On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:59:29 +0100, Jean-Nicolas Boulay Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The scope attribute was created to tell a screen reader to read a table in a certain way... But now it has been remove from the spec.

Re: [whatwg] How to use SVG in HTML5?

2008-01-23 Thread James Graham
David Gerard wrote: Forgive me if this is a simple and obvious question. I note that all current browsers (except IE, of course) implement SVG rendering (to a better or worse degree). I'd like to be able to drop SVG images into an HTML page as easily as I can a JPEG or PNG. I read over the

Re: [whatwg] Reverse ordered lists

2008-01-23 Thread James Graham
Siemova wrote: On Jan 23, 2008 10:54 AM, David Walbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not that simple -- the last line should be start = 1 + ( (number of items - 1) * step) if it's assumed that the last item of the list is numbered one by default.

Re: [whatwg] Defect reports

2007-08-28 Thread James Graham
Micah Cowan wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 I'm collecting comments and suggestions to make on the current HTML5, including clarifications, corrections, and a typographical issue or two. Is this the appropriate location to make such comments, or is there a better place,

Re: [whatwg] Style sheet loading and parsing (over HTTP)

2007-05-23 Thread James Graham
Julian Reschke wrote: What I'm saying is that an HTML spec should be silent on these issues, instead of contradicting the other specs that are relevant. If you don't like what these specs say, try to revise them. But don't try to redefine these things in HTML5. How would placing things in a

Re: [whatwg] Style sheet loading and parsing (over HTTP)

2007-05-23 Thread James Graham
James Graham wrote: Julian Reschke wrote: What I'm saying is that an HTML spec should be silent on these issues, instead of contradicting the other specs that are relevant. If you don't like what these specs say, try to revise them. But don't try to redefine these things in HTML5. How would

Re: [whatwg] Conformance for Mail clients (and maybe other WYSIWYGeditors)

2007-04-11 Thread James Graham
Kristof Zelechovski wrote: I think the correct fallback for a photograph for its own sake is alt=(Use a browser that supports graphic images to view). Not much use to a blind user, for example. (Of course arguably flickr as a whole isn't much use to a blind user but that alt text still seems

Re: [whatwg] on codecs in a 'video' tag.

2007-03-27 Thread James Graham
Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote: * Anne van Kesteren wrote: Also, I think the HTML specification should mandate (as SHOULD-level requirement, probably) support for the various supported image formats as it gives a clear indication of what authors can rely on and what user agents have to implement

Re: [whatwg] on codecs in a 'video' tag.

2007-03-27 Thread James Graham
Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote: * James Graham wrote: I think you are mistaking a requirement for all UAs with one for UAs that support the display of images. For UAs that support the display of images, authors rely on GIF, JPEG and PNG support being avaliable. The specifcation should reflect

Re: [whatwg] on codecs in a 'video' tag.

2007-03-27 Thread James Graham
Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote: I have a hard time following you. Could you rephrase what pain it would solve, and why this is the best solution, if the HTML specification in- cludes documentation what you need in terms of explicit interaction with the document layer to produce a functional graphical

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2007-03-23 Thread James Graham
Nicholas Shanks wrote: On 23 Mar 2007, at 02:27, Robert Brodrecht wrote: Just because most ... doesn't bother doesn't mean it ought to be removed. So let's not ignore elements because no one uses them. Ignore them because they are useless. I was thinking more along the lines of: 1) We

Re: [whatwg] Using the HTML5 DOCTYPE as a new quirksmode switch

2007-03-14 Thread James Graham
Asbjørn Ulsberg wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:33:54 +0100, Simon Pieters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only way to not break 50% of the web is to invent a new mode that gives the IE developers a blank sheet they can begin to draw on. FWIW, I think the 50% figure is incorrect. According to

Re: [whatwg] Configure Apache to send the right MIME type for XHTML

2007-03-07 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: Indeed, if one were of a suspicious turn of mind, one might think the insistence on sending XHTML as application/xhtml+xml were nothing but a strategy to make XHTML so practically inconvenient that no one would consider it. I think I don't understand. The difficulty

[whatwg] Possible bug in the character encoding detection algorithm

2007-03-02 Thread James Graham
Given the following line of input: a b='c' 012345678 - byte numbers for reference I believe the steps in the spec have the following effect: Match a Advance position to 2 Get an attribute Advance position to 3 Attribute Name = b Advance position to 4 Jump to step labeled value (Presumably at

Re: [whatwg] Geolocation in the browser

2007-02-22 Thread James Graham
Ryan Sarver wrote: I tried to search through the archives to see if the discussion had come up before and didn’t find anything, so please forgive me if it has. Something slightly relevant has been discussed in the context of wf2 [1] We have been successful in exposing it through the

Re: [whatwg] several messages about HTML5

2007-02-21 Thread James Graham
Gervase Markham wrote: (I guess I'm making an underlying assumption here that there aren't loads of existing pages on the web using HTML 5 predefined class names while expecting HTML 5 rendering and semantics for them. But, unless I'm missing something, that seems like a reasonable

Re: [whatwg] New markup constructs

2007-02-20 Thread James Graham
Gervase Markham wrote: James Graham wrote: [1] http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/classes.html What a useful URL. Where in that data is the basis for this hi or m element which has caused so much discussion recently? Since it is designed as an annotation to a page rather than a part

Re: [whatwg] several messages about HTML5

2007-02-20 Thread James Graham
Vlad Alexander (xhtml.com) wrote: 4. One of the biggest problems with HTML is that content authors can get away with writing tag soup. As a result, most content authors don't feel the need to write markup to specification. When markup is not written to specification, CSS may not get applied

Re: [whatwg] New markup constructs

2007-02-19 Thread James Graham
Vlad Alexander (xhtml.com) wrote: X/HTML 5 introduces new markup constructs such as sectioning elements, enhancements to the input element, a construct for dialogs, a way to mark up figures, and much more. Can you briefly describe these new constructs and the reason they were added? In

Re: [whatwg] De-emphasis

2007-02-09 Thread James Graham
Jonathan Worent wrote: The argument that no-one would use it is pointless. There are plenty of elements in the spec right now that aren't likely to be used often, but they're still in the spec because they have merit. No, the argument that no one would use it is important. More elements =

Re: [whatwg] The m element

2007-02-08 Thread James Graham
Leons Petrazickis wrote: They are marking the search terms with a highlighter. In an aural browser, would these terms be read differently? Perhaps. Does this transfer to mobile browsers? Very definitely. How would an auraul browser treak these terms differently? I can perhaps imagine some

Re: [whatwg] Comparison of XForms-Tiny and WF2

2007-01-25 Thread James Graham
Klotz, Leigh wrote: If Opera had wanted to engage, it would have done so in the many previous years, and if Opera had concerns about the direction of XForms (or even XHTML (or even XML)) it would have done so at the charter and requirements document stages. Not doing so was a business

Re: [whatwg] Comparison of XForms-Tiny and WF2

2007-01-24 Thread James Graham
Anne van Kesteren wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:02:57 -0500, Elliotte Harold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One would almost get the impression that supporters of XForms-Tiny would rather write their own spec than engage in dialogue with the community that created Web Forms 2.0... Hello, Pot? This

Re: [whatwg] Problems with the definition of cite

2007-01-20 Thread James Graham
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: I wrote: That's not a fair summary: see the example I gave to Anne van Kesteren of getting back to a Hamlet scene text from citeHamlet, I.ii/cite with a mere Google query. James Graham wrote: Using the cite attribute to link to a search page is at best almost

Re: [whatwg] Problems with the definition of cite

2007-01-16 Thread James Graham
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: The /only/ way we will get browsers to display citations in the manner expected by the user is with language-sensitive styling of markup that differentiates the different components of citations (names, article titles, journal titles, page numbers, etc) such as hCite

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-10 Thread James Graham
Kornel Lesinski wrote: On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:47:46 -, James Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW this all makes just as much sense with dictionary replaced by stylesheet (stylesheets need to be kept in sync as new elements, classes and ids are used rather than new words). Not entirely

Re: [whatwg] Hyphenation

2007-01-09 Thread James Graham
Kornel Lesinski wrote: Hyphenation dictionary supplied by the page seems like a good idea, but having it in head might cause some headaches in dynamic systems: * in some template systems adding anything to head is difficult * author may want to compose page from several independent fragments,

Re: [whatwg] blockquote cite and q cite

2007-01-03 Thread James Graham
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: And I am unconvinced that authors would be willing to spoon feed data mining tools, considering that the beneficiaries of such spoon feeding are not the authors themselves nor even their direct human audience. So you want to quote a

Re: [whatwg] Semantic styling languages in the guise of HTMLattributes.

2006-12-27 Thread James Graham
Mike Schinkel wrote: Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: On Dec 22, 2006, at 3:23 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: ... Also, it seems to me that the usefulness of non-heuristic machine consumption of semantic roles of things like dialogs, names of vessels,

Re: [whatwg] Semantic styling languages in the guise of HTML attributes.

2006-12-20 Thread James Graham
Matthew Raymond wrote: A semantic styling language would be a language to assign semantics to elements in a manner similar to how CSS controls their presentations. FWIW, it seems that a better term for the concept you describe would be semantic binding language, since presentation isn't

Re: [whatwg] reset element?

2006-12-15 Thread James Graham
Dean Edwards wrote: Anne van Kesteren wrote: On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:08:35 +0100, Dean Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thoughts? My thought is that this is a CSS issue and not a markup issue. It feels right to fix it with markup. Maybe reset does not give the right semantic meaning? But

Re: [whatwg] microformats incompatible with WebApps 1.0 ?

2006-12-11 Thread James Graham
Ian Hickson wrote: On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Karl Dubost wrote: WebApps 1.0 doesn't have profiles attribute, and then can't be used for microformats. Microformats' use of the profile attribute is hypothetical. Most pages that use Microformats don't use the profile= attribute. We are now

Re: [whatwg] Test cases for parsing spec (Was: Re: Provding Better Tools)

2006-12-06 Thread James Graham
Ian Hickson wrote: On Tue, 5 Dec 2006, James Graham wrote: As someone in the process of implementing a HTML5 parser from the spec, my _only_ complaint so far is that there aren't (yet) any testcases. If you could get together with the other people writing parsers and come up with a standard

Re: [whatwg] Test cases for parsing spec (Was: Re: Provding Better Tools)

2006-12-06 Thread James Graham
Sam Ruby wrote: Anne van Kesteren wrote: http://code.google.com/p/html5lib/ I have no interest in participating in a project without test cases. You are entirely right that we have a serious lack of testcases at the moment. This is intended to be a temporary situation, hence my interest

Re: [whatwg] Provding Better Tools (was: Re: 9.1.2.1: trailing slash and atheism)

2006-12-05 Thread James Graham
Mike Schinkel wrote: The lesser problems (20%) are that it will take time for reasonably good ones to evolve, and many will be subtly incompatible because of a variety of reasons: a.) lack of complete understand of the spec, b.) time-to-market concerns, c.) belief that full compatibility is not

Re: [whatwg] Microsoft Expression Web

2006-12-05 Thread James Graham
Mike Schinkel wrote: Microsoft released Expression Web yesterday: http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/expression-web/features.mspx The narrator for their video for Standards-based Web Sites says XHTML builds upon the HTML standard that allows a larger percentage of browsers to

[whatwg] Minor linking addition to parsing section

2006-12-05 Thread James Graham
It would be useful if in section 9.2.4.4. The trailing end phase, phrases such as Switch back to the main phase and reprocess the token. linked to the part of section 9.2.4.3.6. The insertion mode that define which insertion mode the main phase should be in when making this switch. -- The

Re: [whatwg] several messages about XML syntax and HTML5

2006-12-04 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: That means I have to send text/html to browsers (because that's the only thing they understand) and let my clients ignore that hint. No. As I understand it, the full chain of events should look like this: [Internal data model in server] |

Re: [whatwg] several messages about XML syntax and HTML5

2006-12-04 Thread James Graham
Sam Ruby wrote: James Graham wrote: [Internal data model in server] | | HTML 5 Serializer | | {Network} | | HTML 5 Parser

Re: [whatwg] markup as authored in practice

2006-12-03 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: Even if people don't hand edit entire pages they will hand edit fragments of pages such as on wikis and forums and blogs and cms. Actually, no they don't. Almost every major CMS/Blog/Wiki uses a non angle bracket input format. This is nonsense. flickr, blogger,

Re: [whatwg] markup as authored in practice

2006-12-02 Thread James Graham
Lachlan Hunt wrote: The XHTML serialisation exists to make use of XML-only features, like xmlns syntax. People wishing to use such features *must* use XML. There has been no reason whatsoever given for wanting to try and use unsupported XML-only syntax in HTML, most likely because there is

Re: [whatwg] markup as authored in practice

2006-12-02 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: James Graham wrote: Ignoring the _syntax_ for a moment, there have been reasons given for wanting to use XML _features_ in HTML5 - the desire to embed MathML or SVG in a HTML document, for example. You suggest punting these use cases to XHTML5, without addressing

Re: [whatwg] markup as authored in practice

2006-12-02 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: I don't believe most web documents are hand authored any more. Consider that essentially every page generated by Blogger, Moveable Type or WordPress is not hand authored. Almost every page at sites like Amazon.com or walmart.com is not hand authored. Hand authoring is a

Re: [whatwg] 9.1.2.1: trailing slash and atheism

2006-12-01 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: This character has no effect when the document is parsed by an HTML5 parser. However, if the document when parsed by an XML parser, the trailing slash converts the tag into an empty-element tag, and thereby makes an otherwise malformed element well-formed. If you're

Re: [whatwg] Allow trailing slash in always-empty HTML5 elements?

2006-11-29 Thread James Graham
Ian Hickson wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Leons Petrazickis wrote: This rigmarole is going to repeat on every site that has converted to XHTML sent as text/html. People are emotionally invested in the idea of trailing slashes. Websites have complex codebases, and going through them removing

Re: [whatwg] many messages regarding image captions

2006-11-28 Thread James Graham
On Sat, 4 Nov 2006, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: or make the association implicit by using the for attribute embed id=funnyVid ... caption for=funnyVidA funny video of a man being hit in the groin by a football/caption That would work for the current page layouts of YouTube and

Re: [whatwg] Subject: Re: many messages regarding image captions

2006-11-28 Thread James Graham
Michel Fortin wrote: Le 28 nov. 2006 à 11:09, James Graham a écrit : Broad semantics mean that UAs can do fewer useful things with the information. That dilutes the value of having any semantics at all. Paragraphs are used for so many thing they can hardly be used to extract any information

Re: [whatwg] The IMG element, proposing a CAPTION attribute

2006-11-22 Thread James Graham
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:42:11 +0600, Michel Fortin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I propose a new fcaption elements -- for figure caption -- in replacement for the caption element in my previous figure construct: figure fcaptionCaption Text/fcaption

Re: [whatwg] The IMG element, proposing a CAPTION attribute

2006-11-10 Thread James Graham
Jeff Seager wrote: What's clearly missing from the IMG specification is an appropriate means for pairing each picture or graphic with a caption. Neither ALT nor LONGDESC is appropriate for this. My current solution, borrowed from Darren Brierton of Vancouver (

Re: [whatwg] The IMG element, proposing a CAPTION attribute

2006-11-10 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: Given that, I suspect we're probably better off just using regular paragraphs in text with appropriate CSS instructions rather than introducing a new element. I strongly disagree. The caption is intrinsically linked to the image and, by making this relationship

Re: [whatwg] The problems with namespaces in text/html

2006-11-06 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: http://cafe.elharo.com/web/mokka/ http://hsivonen.iki.fi/validator/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fcafe.elharo.com%2Fweb%2Fmokka%2Fparser=xmllaxtype=yes I think that makes my point for me. Not really. That's not the system I was talking about. The article

Re: [whatwg] The utility function for semantics in HTML

2006-11-05 Thread James Graham
Elliotte Harold wrote: I suspect there are actually two axes here, and they're not orthogonal, [...] I agree we don't want to go all the way to 1 on the first axis. [...] However, I would turn the second axis all the way to about 0.99 Just to note that, in your model of non-orthogonal

Re: [whatwg] [HTML5] 3.10.9. The |abbr| element

2006-11-02 Thread James Graham
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Abbreviation expansions should only be supplied when they help the reader to understand the content, not just because the word happens to be an abbreviation. I agree, unless using abbr with no title is useful to get the correct rendering of abbreviations in non-visual

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2006-11-01 Thread James Graham
Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: To take a slight detour into the (hopefully not too) abstract, what do people think the fundamental point of semantics in HTML is? I'd say Machine readability. Sorry to be pedantic but what do you mean machine readable? All (conforming) HTML

Re: [whatwg] Semantics in HTML

2006-11-01 Thread James Graham
Anne van Kesteren wrote: [...] I also don't know which view best fits my position because I don't really understand what people are trying to achieve with (the markup in) HTML -- I think there are things I would change in the current draft, but there seems little point talking about which

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread James Graham
Michel Fortin wrote: Le 30 oct. 2006 à 15:33, Ian Hickson a écrit : One thing to consider when looking at footnotes is would the title= attribute handle this use case as well as what I'm proposing?. If the answer is yes, or almost, then it's probably not a good idea to introduce the new

Re: [whatwg] Canvas lack of drawString method

2006-10-25 Thread James Graham
David Hyatt wrote: I'm very reluctant to expose font metrics and information (yet). I think once you start getting into specifying fonts, you open up a can of worms that would make this sort of API addition a lot harder. I still believe that any api that does not allow the author to query

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

2006-10-23 Thread James Graham
Dean Edwards wrote: The point is that there is room for all of these methods for retrieving DOM nodes. As there is no useful existing standard let's add stuff that people actually want instead of referring them to vapour ware. I guess the question is why bother with getElementByClassName if a

Re: [whatwg] Canvas lack of drawString method (p.s.)

2006-10-17 Thread James Graham
Stefan Haustein wrote: p.s.: To simplify coping with changing font sizes, it probably makes sense to add an align parameter (left|center|right top|center|baseline|bottom) to the drawString call... How does that solve the font substitution problem? This is a real problem that people actually

Re: [whatwg] Modal Dialog Box support

2006-09-06 Thread James Graham
Charles McCathieNevile wrote: On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:27:28 +0200, Matthew Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: [Snip!] Chapter 30 Using Dialogs in About the Face 2.0 [1] by Alan Cooper makes a good read too. [1]

Re: [whatwg] href on any element

2006-09-05 Thread James Graham
Keryx webb wrote: Will it break backwards compatibility? Yes, if todays browsers are supposed to be able to render WHATWG-pages. But there are lots of other things in WHATWG that they do not understand either. It's only the very latest browsers that can handle canvas. No browser fully

Re: [whatwg] Lists, ins/del, and a

2006-08-29 Thread James Graham
Michel Fortin wrote: (Note that everything applying to normal lists in this message could also apply to definition lists and tables.) The ongoing thread about a global href attribute versus a block-level a element made me think of a similar situation concerning ins and del. How can we markup

Re: [whatwg] input type=country?

2006-08-24 Thread James Graham
Sander Tekelenburg wrote: A good implementation would - know how to handle different spellings/synonyms (like US/USA, UK/England, Holland/The Netherlands/Nederland, etc.) - make proper use of the OS' language/location settings, if available, for its initial setting, but allow the user to

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

2006-08-24 Thread James Graham
Charles McCathieNevile wrote: About right except there is a mechanism in the W3C work for adding new values, which don't make it non-conforming. Given that people are pretty inventive, I think that is quite valuable. YMMV I don't see the point; if someone makes a value up and UAs don't

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

2006-08-23 Thread James Graham
Matthew Raymond wrote: Show me a spec that says that in a normative way. It is merely a best practice. Class names, in general, are meaningless and meaningful class names should not be part of the core specification. The reason that semantic class names are best practice is because class

Re: [whatwg] input type=country?

2006-08-23 Thread James Graham
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:44:37 +0700, Martijn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are times I have to select in which country I live in. Wouldn't a input type=country widget be useful here? I couldn't find one on the web forms 2.0 spec, but something in that line is already

Re: [whatwg] input type=country?

2006-08-23 Thread James Graham
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0700, James Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are times I have to select in which country I live in. Wouldn't a input type=country widget be useful here? I couldn't find one on the web forms 2.0 spec, but something in that line

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

2006-08-16 Thread James Graham
Matthew Raymond wrote: The role attribute currently describes behavior, and is added so that users with disabilities know what the behavior for a given element is, according to well-known semantics. CSS is supposed to be for presentational. In your scenarior, will there be any way to easily

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

2006-08-14 Thread James Graham
Anne van Kesteren wrote: On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:22:40 -0700, Aaron Leventhal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the role attribute because it's already usable in Mozilla, to make accessible web applications. What's the advantage of using class/appearance instead, if there is no browser already

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

2006-08-13 Thread James Graham
Matthew Raymond wrote: [...] where a proper CSS presentation for the users primary media is not available [...] This is almost always the case on the real web. Yeah, the web masters are so lazy that they can't be bothered to add accessibility via CSS, but they'll be working overtime

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

2006-08-13 Thread James Graham
James Graham wrote: Matthew Raymond wrote: [...] where a proper CSS presentation for the users primary media is not available [...] This is almost always the case on the real web. Yeah, the web masters are so lazy that they can't be bothered to add accessibility via CSS, but they'll

Re: [whatwg] Spellchecking proposal #2

2006-06-26 Thread James Graham
Gervase Markham wrote: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Check spelling: ( ) Never (*) As the page author suggests ( ) Always This isn't actually strictly necessary at all - one can imagine the setting being on a per field basis with the author value representing the default and the user being able

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-22 Thread James Graham
Michel Fortin wrote: Le 20 juin 2006 à 6:53, Robert O'Callahan a écrit : I would also like to see a complete description of the CSS extensions required for real high-quality rendering. I can't claim this is complete, but two ideas come to my mind right now: [4 suggestions] Also, as far as

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-18 Thread James Graham
White Lynx wrote: James Graham wrote: You have to choose your battles and, personally, I agree with the idea that, if the proponents of CSS-based maths want to work in the structure of the WHATWG, they should demonstrate the feasibility of their approach using a microformat. Given

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-17 Thread James Graham
Stefan Gössner wrote: Anne van Kesteren wrote: The core features of an XML vocabulary should require the use of elements from ONLY ONE NAMESPACE. Is math really a core feature? Yes, absolutely .. the upcoming microlearning / nanolearning units inevitably need math. That's a really

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-16 Thread James Graham
White Lynx wrote: So how does it fit in the scope of fundamental principles upon which the WHAT working group intends to operate? http://www.w3.org/2004/04/webapps-cdf-ws/papers/opera.html I don't see anything contradictory there (and in any case I'm not sure the document you

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-13 Thread James Graham
White Lynx wrote: If this demonstrates that it really is possible to create viable math markup in HTML and have it completely styled in CSS then that would be a good step This step is already made, No it is not. You have demonstrated that CSS can do a mediocre job at simple mathematics.

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-08 Thread James Graham
White Lynx wrote: Dan Brickley wrote: It would also be both considerate and sensible (if anyone does want to undertake such a task) to talk to the MathML folks first. So far we are addressing problems that were invented and deployed by MathML folks. But you are, apparently, assuming that

Re: [whatwg] [Fwd: Re: Mathematics in HTML5]

2006-06-07 Thread James Graham
James Graham wrote: I assume you meant to send this to the list. Oops, I missed the on-list copy. Sorry. -- You see stars that clear have been dead for years But the idea just lives on... -- Bright Eyes

Re: [whatwg] [Fwd: Re: Mathematics in HTML5]

2006-06-07 Thread James Graham
White Lynx wrote: James Graham wrote: However, elsewhere on this thread you have convinced me that a lot of CSS work is needed before it can display maths with any degree of complexity in a pleasant manner without requiring extensive, per-formula, adjustments to the style properties

Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5

2006-06-02 Thread James Graham
Håkon Wium Lie wrote: I think you make a compelling case for adding math to HTML the simple way. Personally, I'm open to adding it to HTML5. How much would it add to the specification? I remain sceptical about this. However, if there is a serious effort to replace MathML I believe the

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