Re: [whatwg] Tim BL's HTML WG announcement and WHAT WG

2006-10-30 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 02:04:04 +0100, Karl Dubost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though IMHO, layout engines are just one part of it. As I said above parsing libraries, indexing bots, authoring tools are as MUCH important, specifically if we want to stop the generation of tag soup. It's not about

Re: [whatwg] Tim BL's HTML WG announcement and WHAT WG

2006-10-30 Thread Charles McCathieNevile
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:56:19 +1000, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 29, 2006, at 19:16, Charles McCathieNevile wrote: So what comes out will probably be a (perhaps evolved) version of WHATWG stuff, as has been the case in some other W3C groups already. That would be

Re: [whatwg] Lack of standard for digital signatures [was Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5]

2006-10-30 Thread Channy Yun
On 10/30/06, Anders Rundgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael(tm) Smith wrote: It is equally interesting that W3C intends to start a new browser authentication WG but have excluded digital signatures and key provisioning from the charter in spite of the fact that about 10M people today have

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Ian Hickson
Hey Joe, Joe Clark wrote: http://blog.fawny.org/2006/10/28/tbl-html/ Note that in general I would encourage you to post your suggestions straight to the WHATWG list, as it is not guarenteed that I will always see your blog posts (though in this case, at least three separate systems and

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Joao Eiras wrote: Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: * Make embed legal. Give it up, people: object doesn't work and never will. HTML5 will make emded legal. Object works pretty fine. embed is duplicated functionality, not as flexible and accessible

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2006-10-30 Thread Ian Hickson
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, Henri Sivonen wrote: Due in no small part to WHAT WG�s leadership by a strict standardista Well, the leadership applies different kind of strictness to the tokenizer/DOM level and to semantics. Personally, I'd like the tokenizer/DOM part to be a tad stricter and

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Joao Eiras
Na , Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Joao Eiras wrote: Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: * Make embed legal. Give it up, people: object doesn't work and never will. HTML5 will make emded legal. Object works pretty fine. embed is duplicated

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Joao Eiras wrote: Browsers will continue to suport embed, but the recomendations shouldn't. Why not? Embed doesn't provide a fallback mechanism, and mixing parameters to the plugin, and attributes can be error prone, depending on the plugin, while object

Re: [whatwg] Lack of standard for digital signatures [was Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5]

2006-10-30 Thread Anders Rundgren
The use of proprietary mechanisms (mostly ActiveX controls) for digital signatures is common in Korean sites as well, including Korean government sites. That's right. They sure are proprietary; I was not even able to get the Korean e-goverment signature spec since it is secret! Korean

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Charles Iliya Krempeaux
Hello,On 10/30/06, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Joe,Joe Clark wrote: http://blog.fawny.org/2006/10/28/tbl-html/[...] This is a classic problem in HTML development: The people doing the work are geeks with computer-science interests who do not understand, for example, newspapers, or

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Håkon Wium Lie
Joe Clark wrote: http://blog.fawny.org/2006/10/28/tbl-html/ This is a classic problem in HTML development: The people doing the work are geeks with computer-science interests who do not understand, for example, newspapers, or screenplays, or, really, print publishing in general.

[whatwg] Video (Was: How not to fix HTML)

2006-10-30 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Would you be open to hearing suggestions about how to add native video and video player support? Sure. FWIW, there's a lot of interest in browser vendors about introducing a video element or some such (or maybe making browsers natively

Re: [whatwg] Allow form as a child of tbody

2006-10-30 Thread Simon Pieters
Hi, I'll push a bit further on this issue. :-) From: Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] While that is true with the constraints of HTML4, we could allow forms to be direct children of tbody in HTML5. table form action=/edit method=post tr td input type=hidden name=id value=1/

Re: [whatwg] Allow form as a child of tbody

2006-10-30 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Simon Pieters wrote: table form action=/edit method=post tr td input type=hidden name=id value=1/ input type=text name=name value=First Row/ This also happens to be backwards compatible with legacy UA's. Check the DOM for that

Re: [whatwg] Allow form as a child of tbody

2006-10-30 Thread Simon Pieters
Hi, From: Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that having form as child of tbody is intuitive. Sure, it would be great. I've nothing against the idea in principle. I just don't see how to execute it. For backwards compatibility reasons we can't

Re: [whatwg] Video (Was: How not to fix HTML)

2006-10-30 Thread Charles Iliya Krempeaux
Hello,On 10/30/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello,On 10/30/06, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Would you be open to hearing suggestions about how to add native video and video player support?Sure. FWIW, there's a

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Ian Hickson wrote: Joe Clark wrote: http://blog.fawny.org/2006/10/28/tbl-html/ FYI, my response to that his here. http://lachy.id.au/log/2006/10/fixing-html * Allow multiple uses of the same id/label in a form and suddenly it becomes possible to mark up multiple-choice questionnaires

Re: [whatwg] The Module Tag

2006-10-30 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:04:40 +0600, Douglas Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been looking at the mashup problem. All scripts run with the authority of the base page, so mashups are not indicated for any application containing private data or managing a private connection. That is

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Charles Iliya Krempeaux
Hello Lachlan,On 10/30/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Hickson wrote: Joe Clark wrote: http://blog.fawny.org/2006/10/28/tbl-html/FYI, my response to that his here. http://lachy.id.au/log/2006/10/fixing-htmlThat link doesn't work. (I get a 404.)See ya-- Charles Iliya Krempeaux,

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 03:01:47 +0600, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Embed doesn't provide a fallback mechanism, and mixing parameters to the plugin, and attributes can be error prone, depending on the plugin, while object makes use of param. Sure but, everyone uses embed, and object

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-30 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: http://lachy.id.au/log/2006/10/fixing-html That link doesn't work. (I get a 404.) Fixed, thanks. There seems to ge a bug WordPress that causes posts to get marked as private for some unknown reason. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/

Re: [whatwg] Video

2006-10-30 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Ian Hickson wrote: On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: Would you be open to hearing suggestions about how to add native video and video player support? Sure. FWIW, there's a lot of interest in browser vendors about introducing a video element or some such (or maybe making

Re: [whatwg] Video

2006-10-30 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote: On 10/30/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Places like YouTube and Google Video work around this by building their own interface using Flash, which handles multiple formats seamlessly for the user. Not exactly. Flash players only play FLV video files.

Re: [whatwg] Video

2006-10-30 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:05:10 +0600, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I aware that there are many implementations of ogg available, but Windows Media Player, Quick Time and Real Player don't. http://www.illiminable.com/ogg/ http://xiph.org/quicktime/