Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Unfortunately, I have to report a complete lack of response or evidence of interest by the WMF taking even the most basic steps to enforce the commitments that the WMF themselves chose to publish to this email list. WMF legal returned an automatic reference number "[Request received] - 24634" on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

The most recent official WMF survey "Media Matching Screener Survey"[1] which has terms and conditions published on 26 Feb 2021 by LMixter (WMF)[2] was promoted on Wikimedia Commons on 1 March 2021 by MRaish (WMF),[3] has no mechanism for tracking the geographic region of contributors, as

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

People living in these countries already know which services they can use and which one they shouldn't. We don't actually expose them to threats by, instead, we prevent them from using the feature relying upon these services. Several users probably won't trust these services even if our legal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 2:11 AM Mathieu Lovato Stumpf Guntz wrote: > Now, the WMF by its own word aims to "provide the essential infrastructure > for free knowledge". > Should this statement be taken seriously, the foundation can not be light on > the tools it chooses > to communicate with the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Oups, sorry for that email, I wanted to respond privately. The answer to my question seems to have already published in this thread with https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T275574 Le 28/02/2021 à 18:35, Mathieu Lovato Stumpf Guntz a écrit : Hello

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Hello Valerio, Thank you for all that you already have done on the topic. Do you have precise tasks on which I might help? If not, do you already considered opening a task board on this topic and start to fill it? Cheers, psychoslave Le 22/02/2021 à 08:15, Valerio Bozzolan via Wikimedia-l a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

A deeper look into the official response by the WMF raises some questions about what it means in practice and whether a plain English reading of the words is sufficient. Q1: WMF tested open source solutions "[Surveys] [...] we have previously tested and attempted to use open source solutions such

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Hello, I agree that a blind "ban them all right now" is not the way to go. Now, the WMF by its own word aims to "provide the essential infrastructure for free knowledge". Should this statement be taken seriously, the foundation can not be light on the tools it chooses to communicate with the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

First point for security. What should be secure is the software AND the entity using it. In case there is a third entity managing the data, there is an additional level of insecurity to take care. When people "donate" you your data, they don't take care what is the software behind but who

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

+1 And if anyone has this document in their hands, please notify us here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T275574 On Tue, 2021-02-23 at 08:36 +, Fæ wrote: > Could someone provide a link to the discussed security review of > LimeSurvey? I've been unable to find it. > ... > Thanks, > Fae --

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Could someone provide a link to the discussed security review of LimeSurvey? I've been unable to find it. Considering that the currently open UCoC survey using Google Forms has quoted WMF terms and conditions, which imply a special agreement with Google, was there a security review for this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Agree about the privacy and security worries shared by some in the list. >From a software maintenance pov, developing a new tool is sometimes easier but maintaining and keeping up with the ever-changing internet standards (and new vulnerabilities and security changes) is hard. That said, a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021, 7:18 am Valerio Bozzolan via Wikimedia-l, < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > Apologies for my TL;DR > > Interesting topic. I'm recently working on making ethical surveys more > and more widespread, starting from here: >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Hello everyone, Apologies for my TL;DR Interesting topic. I'm recently working on making ethical surveys more and more widespread, starting from here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Italia/LimeSurvey Every hand is welcome. Warm wishes! > As a consequence of the promotion of a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Hi folks, Disclaimer: I'm not speaking on behalf of WMF. I'm sharing my personal views based on what I've learned over the years working with different survey tools. * Freedom and Open Source is a guiding principle [1] for the Wikimedia Foundation and something I personally deeply care about.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Hello, Thank you for discussing this matter. The Wikimedia Foundation takes the safety and privacy of volunteers very seriously. I recognize that among the concerns is that the identities of LGBTQ+ members of the movement could be revealed to anti-LGBTQ entities and governments. As someone who

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Kaya Have we put the ostrich back, where does this go from here? Have we decided to learn and make an effort or have we reached the inevitable impasse where everyone hopes the issue has been forgotten about. There was a reasonable (though I think unlikely) possibility that contributors in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Well, both ZEUS and CiviCRM works well in many NGO-ses. It is just a subject of proper maintenance. Actually, a piece of free software called MediaWiki is probably more complicated to maintain than CiviCRM or Wordpress but WMF is able to maintain it pretty well :-) I believe that organization

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Picking up on the tips that finding an alternative may not be as easy as the WMF hosting, and perhaps patching, a version of LimeSurvey.[1] This would be choosing to ignore the fact that WMF funded surveys have and do include questions that if leaked or otherwise linked to the identity of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 6:59 AM Philippe Beaudette wrote: > Did anyone ask? > > No, no-one did ask. Which is one reason that it's regrettable this conversation has kicked off with a confrontational on-wiki vote. I would be interested to hear what the WMF's current position on this is.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Instead of insisting to use a tool or another, I think that the main point should be the security. What happens to all these data, who takes care of them, who will read them, where they will be published. Third party or not the recurrent topic of free software is always badly managed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Hi, On 2/14/21 5:08 PM, Łukasz Garczewski wrote: *So here's a constructive alternative idea:* * Let's gather the needs and use cases for tools used by WMF and affiliates, * Let's build a list of potential open source replacements and map what features are missing, * Let's put the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Limesurvey [1] is a very active project and I would be surprised if a security error wouldn't have been fixed in many years. Especially if it was reported as a security incident back to the community. Which should be the procedure when such things are discovered, is not only good practice in open

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

Has Limesurvey been patched since? (asking as I see it widely used among some very ethical and tech literate projects) On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 8:52 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: > That tool was Limesurvey. > >A. > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2021, 08:59 Philippe Beaudette > wrote: > >> I would also like to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

That tool was Limesurvey. A. On Mon, 15 Feb 2021, 08:59 Philippe Beaudette wrote: > I would also like to add a bit of historical context. Many years ago, > when I worked at the WMF, we were using a FLOSS survey tool (I don't recall > which). We were fairly dependent on it, when one day

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

I don't live in a country where I need to be worried about the anonymity and privacy, but that doesn't prevent me from appreciating that there are people in countries like Myanmar, Iran, Syria, and many others who need the assurity of privacy to contribute to the movement. On Mon, 15 Feb 2021 at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

I would also like to add a bit of historical context. Many years ago, when I worked at the WMF, we were using a FLOSS survey tool (I don't recall which). We were fairly dependent on it, when one day someone discovered that it was vulnerable to sql injection attacks and Tim Starling (I believe)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

To clarify to anyone who doesn't want to read the actual proposal, which Fae did not repeat here: *Proposal* It is proposed that on Wikimedia Commons that there must be no promotion of surveys or questionnaires which rely on third party sites and closed source tools, such as Google Forms. This

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

I agree with Fae's proposal if we are using tools that exclude community members out of safety and privacy concerns then we arent fulfilling the equity goals. I also recognise that alternatives need to be available but with no incentive for them to be used then there is no development of such

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

With respect, Fae, if you're going to propose banning an existing solution, it is on you to propose a suitable alternative or at least a process to find it before the ban takes effect. I write this as a signatory of Free Software Foundation Europe's Public Money? Public Code open letter

[Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

As a consequence of the promotion of a Google forms based survey this week by a WMF representative, a proposal on Wikimedia Commons has been started to ban the promotion of surveys which rely on third party sites like Google Forms.[1] Launched today, but already it appears likely that this