On 15 April 2014 05:48, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:
So what is the explanation, then? What was so wrong with the defaults? Do
you have any links?
I must ask again:
Where are the user test results?
Are there any?
I've asked several times and had no response.
- d.
On 12 April 2014 05:49, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to test this locally on the English Wikipedia, and I am quit
confident this makes everyone happy because 1) every OS should end up
using
a native font, and 2) it promotes a free font at the beginning of the
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:55 AM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:
On 13/04/14 14:12, Martijn Hoekstra wrote:
But same as the original font stack, the question remains - for everything
but mac, what is this supposed to solve? What is the purpose of
even having helvetica and arial there
According to
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Typography_refresh/Font_choice#Body_font_evaluationDejaVu
sans scores 0 out of 10 points for readability,
neutrality, and authority (does the font look like it conveys reliable
information). Apparently the font is not readable, neutral or
On 15 April 2014 17:24, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
Really a 0? What would comic sans get?
High scores for readability! It's also well-known to be very business-friendly.
- d.
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On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.comwrote:
On Wikitech-l, Design-l, and in the extensive documentation on
mediawiki.org,
people have laid out highly objective rationales for why each font and the
associated type sizing, spacing, leading, and more were
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Gergo Tisza gti...@wikimedia.org wrote:
- instead of guessing about user preferences, you could just create a
simple survey which shows them the same text with two different font
stacks
side by side, and ask them which is more readable. This is good
On 15 April 2014 18:12, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
We don't have a powerful/easy to use/not annoying/privacy-respecting survey
tool that can do side-by-side comparisons. This is why the feature was
launched using Beta Features for five months first. Putting out in opt-in
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:12:29 +0200, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com
wrote:
Are you volunteering to build such a survey tool? ;-)
Is the Foundation unable/unwilling to allocate resources towards that? I mean,
so far it looked like everyone is treating the typography refresh seriously
On 15 April 2014 19:40, Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:12:29 +0200, Steven Walling
steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
When it comes to using a survey to catch problems early and gauging
preferences, a survey still very much suffers from the self-selection
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:23 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
We don't have a powerful/easy to use/not annoying/privacy-respecting
survey
tool that can do side-by-side comparisons. This is why the feature was
launched using Beta Features for five months first. Putting out in
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Gergo Tisza gti...@wikimedia.org wrote:
- instead of guessing about user preferences, you could just create a
simple survey which shows them the same text with two different
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Steven Walling
steven.wall...@gmail.comwrote:
Are you volunteering to build such a survey tool? ;-)
Will see if I find the time. Survey probably gives the wrong idea here,
it is really just an overlay with two buttons, more of an interactive A/B
test. Could be
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Gergo Tisza gti...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Are you volunteering to build such a survey tool? ;-)
Will see if I find the time. Survey probably gives the wrong idea here,
it is really just an overlay with two buttons, more of an interactive A/B
test. Could be
Erwin,
I echo Erik's statement. Thanks for moving this along. In response to
your suggestion that we need a font stack specific to the language I
have compiled this patch [1]
I envision this change should enable various other possibilities in
styling our content better for other languages,
On 15-04-2014 00:55, Isarra Yos wrote:
Deemed better? Better how? But that's what I'm saying - if the
configuration is optimised for dejavu sans, nimbus won't be better at
all even if it is a better-engineered font (doubtful, though, it being
an arial clone from what I understand). Letters will
On 14/04/14 23:49, Erwin Dokter wrote:
On 15-04-2014 00:55, Isarra Yos wrote:
Deemed better? Better how? But that's what I'm saying - if the
configuration is optimised for dejavu sans, nimbus won't be better at
all even if it is a better-engineered font (doubtful, though, it being
an arial
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:
Deemed better? Better how? But that's what I'm saying - if the
configuration is optimised for dejavu sans, nimbus won't be better at all
even if it is a better-engineered font (doubtful, though, it being an arial
clone
On 15/04/14 01:54, Steven Walling wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:
Deemed better? Better how? But that's what I'm saying - if the
configuration is optimised for dejavu sans, nimbus won't be better at all
even if it is a better-engineered font
On Apr 12, 2014 8:58 AM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/04/14 19:30, Erwin Dokter wrote:
First, I like to aplologize to anyone who I may have come over too
passionate at some times. Frustration is known to get the better of me,
even though I should control that. (I also quit
On 11/04/14 19:30, Erwin Dokter wrote:
First, I like to aplologize to anyone who I may have come over too
passionate at some times. Frustration is known to get the better of
me, even though I should control that. (I also quit smoking.)
Not sure where a new font stack should be discussed, so
First, I like to aplologize to anyone who I may have come over too
passionate at some times. Frustration is known to get the better of me,
even though I should control that. (I also quit smoking.)
Not sure where a new font stack should be discussed, so I'm just
throwing it in here. Also, note
3
Thank you Erwin for always moving things forward. Much appreciated. :)
Erik
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
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On Friday, April 11, 2014, Erwin Dokter er...@darcoury.nl wrote:
First, I like to aplologize to anyone who I may have come over too
passionate at some times. Frustration is known to get the better of me,
even though I should control that. (I also quit smoking.)
Much harder to quit than to
On 11-04-2014 21:49, Steven Walling wrote:
This is the part I want to confirm and test. I want to be 100% sure that we
are not gonna run in to the same ClearType rendering issues. (I have a
Windows 7 laptop at my disposal that I can test with, as well as XP virtual
machines.)
I aksed on the
On 2014-04-11, 12:30 PM, Erwin Dokter wrote:
Nimbus Sans L - for Linux. This is the defacto helv font on Linux
systems which result in an look similair to Mac/Windows. Windows will
not match this font, as the Windows versions of the Nimbus font
packages have different font family names (ie.
On 11-04-2014 22:43, Daniel Friesen wrote:
* However I wonder if 'Helvetica' will ever actually be matched. Even
Arial is crappier than Helvetica in most places (aside from those
Windows installed Helvetica fonts) I can't really think of any
situation where a device would have
On 11 April 2014 20:30, Erwin Dokter er...@darcoury.nl wrote:
...
Thank you for your work on this!
Next up I may think about the headers font stack; While Georgia is a good
serif; I detest its use of text figures.
I previously suggested a solution to this that should work for most users
On 12-04-2014 00:47, Peter Coombe wrote:
I previously suggested a solution to this that should work for most users (
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh/Archive_2#Numbers_looks_weird_in_article_title
)
Steven: was this tried?
Using the font-feature-settings CSS. I've had
On 12-04-2014 01:29, Erwin Dokter wrote:
Using the font-feature-settings CSS. I've had some trouble using this
with Georgia, but that was regarding tabular numbers. Works just fine
for lining though.
Thinking further... Browser support is pretty recent, doesn't work in
old Opera (Presto) and
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