Matt, Place the period at the end of the sentence, outside the parentheses (even if it looks odd).
Tom Johnson 231-944-7454 tajohn...@microlinetc.com -----Original Message----- From: tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com [mailto:tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com] On Behalf Of Matt Sullivan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:19 PM To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] TCP Digest, Vol 42, Issue 5 I agree with Chuck's suggestion of putting the dependent clause at the beginning. In the interest of humor, though... Wrap the dependent clause in parentheses. (if the clause cannot be put at the beginning of the sentence) To me, though, the period at the end of the sentence looks awkward on either side of the parens! For my own reference, can you all tell me where the period should be placed? -Matt ________________________________ Matt Sullivan GRAFIX Training 714 960-6840 714 585-2335 cell /txt/sms skype: mattrsullivan http://www.grafixtraining.com http://blogs.roundpeg.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mattrsullivan http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan http://twitter.com/roundpeginc -----Original Message----- From: tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com [mailto:tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com] On Behalf Of tcp-requ...@techcommpros.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:00 AM To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: TCP Digest, Vol 42, Issue 5 Send TCP mailing list submissions to tcp@techcommpros.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tcp-requ...@techcommpros.com You can reach the person managing the list at tcp-ow...@techcommpros.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of TCP digest..." _______________________________________________ ComponentOne Doc-To-Help 2009 is your all-in-one authoring and publishing solution. Author in Doc-To-Help's XML-based editor, Microsoft Word or HTML and publish to the Web, Help systems or printed manuals. Download Free Trial. www.doctohelp.com http://www.techcommpros.com/componentone/ INTERACTIVE 3D DOCUMENTATION Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com Today's Topics: 1. Re: Comma before clauses beginning with 'if" (Chuck Beck) 2. Clarity in writing (was RE: Comma before clauses beginning with 'if") (Thomas Johnson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:05:48 -0400 From: "Chuck Beck" <cb...@swan-cross.com> To: "'raj nair'" <raj_gree...@hotmail.com>, <tcp@techcommpros.com> Subject: Re: [TCP] Comma before clauses beginning with 'if" Message-ID: <6e21338a20ee40759af6a27932a74...@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, Have been fairly inactive for awhile, but now getting back in the swing of things. So I decided to take a shot at this one, before I read anyone else's responses... To me, your example looks awkward, even incorrect. And, according to that old stand-by, the Chicago Manual of Style, if the dependent clause (in this case, beginning with the word "if") is restrictive-that is, it cannot be deleted without altering the meaning of the sentence-then a comma is not required. If the dependent clause is nonrestrictive, meaning it *can* be deleted without significantly altering the meaning of the statement, then it is required. In this case, that would mean that the comma is not required or expected. In any case, I would counsel against constructing a statement, such as the one you provided as an example, with the dependent clause at the end. I very strongly feel that conditional statements should always, always, ALWAYS place the condition *before* the action. Otherwise, the careless user (and there are a LOT of them out there) will typically perform the action and *then* read the condition and then go "Oops!" (or worse). So, I would never write a statement for users like the one you provide as an example. FWIW... Now I'll go read what others have opined. Hope this helps, Chuck Beck www.swan-cross.com -----Original Message----- From: tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com [mailto:tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com] On Behalf Of raj nair Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:57 To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: [TCP] Comma before clauses beginning with 'if" It is well-known that a comma is used if an "if" clause is at the beginning of a sentence. Is there a rule, an exception, where the reverse is true? For example, can this punctuation be right? Select the statement cache size, if you get a warning mesaage. Please share your thoughts. _________________________________________________________________ The world in moving pictures http://news.in.msn.com/gallery/archive.aspx ______________________________________________ ComponentOne Doc-To-Help 2009 is your all-in-one authoring and publishing solution. Author in Doc-To-Help's XML-based editor, Microsoft Word or HTML and publish to the Web, Help systems or printed manuals. Download Free Trial. www.doctohelp.comhttp://www.techcommpros.com/componentone/ Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com _______________________________________________ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email t...@techcommpros.com. Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to tcp-subscr...@techcommpros.com Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to tcp-unsubscr...@techcommpros.com Need help? Contact listad...@techcommpros.com Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:21:10 -0400 From: Thomas Johnson <tajohn...@microlinetc.com> To: "cb...@swan-cross.com" <cb...@swan-cross.com>, 'raj nair' <raj_gree...@hotmail.com>, "tcp@techcommpros.com" <tcp@techcommpros.com> Subject: [TCP] Clarity in writing (was RE: Comma before clauses beginning with 'if") Message-ID: <13882170b137184f9383218f916c77d62dc94b0...@exchange1.microline.mtc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chuck, Thanks for the grammar mini refresher. I'm sure many of us can stand to brush up on our punctuation. I agree with those who say to put the conditional statement first. I've been trying to do that throughout my career. Chuck brings up grammar nuances that many readers may never know or understand. Simple passages add clarity to our writing. If you're having trouble punctuating a sentence, someone is going to have trouble reading it. If that is the case, revise your work. It is that simple. I've been studying a book on Microsoft Access and have stumbled several times on some contractions used in the book. I suspect the author, or maybe the editor, chose to use an "informal" writing style to make the book seem more friendly. That's okay with some words, but the problem's where nouns are contracted with 'is' to make words that are not part of our normal vocabulary. It was my intention to illustrate the problem in the previous sentence. Personally, I don't stumble over "that's", but using the word "problem's" is a different story. I like a familiar style, but it only took me about 20 seconds to randomly select a page where this problem reared its ugly head. Just for kicks, I'll give you five examples that I found on a randomly selected page. Example 1: In this example, the copyright symbol's being copied with the help of Character Map. Example 2: You can dash off a quick printout by choosing File > Print from the menu while your datasheet's visible. Example 3: The key problem's that Access isn't bothered about tables that are too wide to fit on a printed page. Example 4: If you have a large table and you print it out using the standard Access Settings, you could easily end up with a printout that's four pages wide and three pages long. Example 5. To get a better printout, it's absolutely crucial that you preview your table before you print it, as described in the next section. Is it me, or would the first three examples be improved by using the word "is" instead of a contraction? I found myself stumbling over and over as I'm trying to learn some new techniques in Access. Learning Access is hard enough that I don't want to work so hard trying to decipher an overly-familiar style of writing. Tom Johnson 231-944-7454 tajohn...@microlinetc.com -----Original Message----- From: tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com [mailto:tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Beck Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:06 PM To: 'raj nair'; tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: Re: [TCP] Comma before clauses beginning with 'if" Hi all, Have been fairly inactive for awhile, but now getting back in the swing of things. So I decided to take a shot at this one, before I read anyone else's responses... To me, your example looks awkward, even incorrect. And, according to that old stand-by, the Chicago Manual of Style, if the dependent clause (in this case, beginning with the word "if") is restrictive-that is, it cannot be deleted without altering the meaning of the sentence-then a comma is not required. If the dependent clause is nonrestrictive, meaning it *can* be deleted without significantly altering the meaning of the statement, then it is required. In this case, that would mean that the comma is not required or expected. In any case, I would counsel against constructing a statement, such as the one you provided as an example, with the dependent clause at the end. I very strongly feel that conditional statements should always, always, ALWAYS place the condition *before* the action. Otherwise, the careless user (and there are a LOT of them out there) will typically perform the action and *then* read the condition and then go "Oops!" (or worse). So, I would never write a statement for users like the one you provide as an example. FWIW... Now I'll go read what others have opined. Hope this helps, Chuck Beck www.swan-cross.com -----Original Message----- From: tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com [mailto:tcp-boun...@techcommpros.com] On Behalf Of raj nair Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:57 To: tcp@techcommpros.com Subject: [TCP] Comma before clauses beginning with 'if" It is well-known that a comma is used if an "if" clause is at the beginning of a sentence. Is there a rule, an exception, where the reverse is true? For example, can this punctuation be right? Select the statement cache size, if you get a warning mesaage. Please share your thoughts. _________________________________________________________________ The world in moving pictures http://news.in.msn.com/gallery/archive.aspx ______________________________________________ ComponentOne Doc-To-Help 2009 is your all-in-one authoring and publishing solution. Author in Doc-To-Help's XML-based editor, Microsoft Word or HTML and publish to the Web, Help systems or printed manuals. Download Free Trial. www.doctohelp.comhttp://www.techcommpros.com/componentone/ Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com _______________________________________________ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email t...@techcommpros.com. Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to tcp-subscr...@techcommpros.com Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to tcp-unsubscr...@techcommpros.com Need help? Contact listad...@techcommpros.com Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com ______________________________________________ ComponentOne Doc-To-Help 2009 is your all-in-one authoring and publishing solution. Author in Doc-To-Help's XML-based editor, Microsoft Word or HTML and publish to the Web, Help systems or printed manuals. Download Free Trial. www.doctohelp.comhttp://www.techcommpros.com/componentone/ Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com _______________________________________________ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email t...@techcommpros.com. Subscribe, unsubscribe, archives, account options, list info: http://techcommpros.com/mailman/listinfo/tcp_techcommpros.com Subscribe (email): send a blank message to tcp-subscr...@techcommpros.com Unsubscribe (email): send a blank message to tcp-unsubscr...@techcommpros.com Need help? Contact listad...@techcommpros.com Get the TCP whole experience! http://www.techcommpros.com End of TCP Digest, Vol 42, Issue 5 ********************************** ______________________________________________ ComponentOne Doc-To-Help 2009 is your all-in-one authoring and publishing solution. Author in Doc-To-Help's XML-based editor, Microsoft Word or HTML and publish to the Web, Help systems or printed manuals. Download Free Trial. www.doctohelp.comhttp://www.techcommpros.com/componentone/ Interactive 3D Documentation Parts catalogs, animated instructions, and more. www.i3deverywhere.com _______________________________________________ Technical Communication Professionals Post a message to the list: email t...@techcommpros.com. 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