Sir, I get wonderful response from Chat GPT.But from a completely different and wonderful angle you relate my writing to every related established knowledge,giving me confidence and self esteem.Your patience to be so comprehensive is phenomenal. YM Sarma
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 9:01 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyarinc...@gmail.com> wrote: > ECONOMICS ECOLOGY BIRTH AND DEATH ARTHA, PARISTHINIKI JANANAM MARANAM > > > > Pāristhinikī is a Sanskrit word that means "ecology". The > word paryavarana (पर्यावरण) is a Sanskrit word that means "environment". > It can also refer to the surrounding, setting, or atmosphere. The Vedas, > an extensive body of Indian classical literature, describe the environment > and the creation of the world and its organisms. The Vedas also illustrate > the concept of natural balance. The term "ecology" comes from the Greek > words oikos (meaning "house" or "dwelling place") and logos (meaning "the > study of"). In other words, ecology is the study of organisms "at home". > > One of the most revered ancient Indian texts, the “Vedas”, > are a testament to sacred knowledge and wisdom, pertaining to the origin > of the world and its living organisms (ecology). Vedas are a source of > enlightening physical and spiritual knowledge that encircles “life” as we > “live” it and “nature” as we “experience” it. Ecology, nature and the > divinity of nature is a prominent and recurring theme in the Vedic texts. > With vivid descriptions of “Paryavarana” or environment, and the creation > and evolution of “Dyava Prithvi” or Heaven and Earth together, it also > phenomenally illustrates the concept of natural balance, in relation with > the five basic elements, the world and its organisms are created out of, > which are, Earth (prithvi), Water (jal), Fire (tejas), Air (vayu), and > Ether (akasha). “Veda” is a broad term to describe an extensive body of > Indian Classical Literature, however this paper focuses on the four “Vedic > Samhitas” namely the Rigveda, Samaveda, Yajurveda and Atharvaveda (KR This > is the right order of the Vedas}. > > The term ‘ecology’ was first used by Ernst Haeckel in 1866, to > describe the ‘economies’ of living forms. Ecology has come to be > understood as the study of the interaction of living organisms and systems, > with their environment, and with their co-species. In order to have a > better understanding of literary texts through an ecological perspective, > the term ‘Ecocriticism’ comes into play. Ecocriticism is the study of the > relationship between literature and the physical environment, according to > Rueckert. It is an attempt to explore the roles played by literature in > the ecology of human species, and the application of ecological concepts to > the study of literature. The Vedic texts, composed of hymns, chants and > incantations, and melodies in the Vedic Sanskrit, have a deep-rooted > ecological significance and scope for *practical application* in the > contemporary world. The Vedas “[...] Countless are the resources of Mother > Earth, from whom flow the rivers of wealth in hundreds of streams, Worship > Motherland as you worship God From time eternal, the Mother Earth is giving > life to her children — you owe debt to Her” (Atharvaveda 12:1:45) The word > ‘Veda’ is derived from the root word ‘vid’ in Sanskrit, which means ‘to > know’, or according to another etymology, it means ‘revelation’; the > knowledge which contains the evidence of truth within itself . In the > Shathapatha Brahmana, it has been mentioned “From them so heated the three > Vedas were produced, the Rigveda from Agni (fire), the Yajurveda from Vayu > (air) and the Samaveda from Surya (the Sun)” (6). Hence, the Vedic > scriptures, mythologically believed to have been in existence since the > beginning of time, and to have been created out of divine natural forces; > beautifully explain nature and its intimate relationship with human beings. > > “O Prithivi, thy centre and thy navel, all forces that have > issued from thy body — Set us amid those forces ; breathe upon > us. I am the son of Earth, Earth is my Mother. Parjanya is my Sire > ; may he promote me.” (Atharvaveda 12:1:12) “Dyaus is my Father, my > begetter: kinship is here. This great earth is my kin and Mother. Between > the wide-spread world-halves is the birth-place: the Father laid the > Daughter's germ within it.” (Rigveda 1:164:33) In the Vedic texts, > specifically the four Vedic Samhitas, natural elements and nature are > venerated as ‘divine entities.’ In the above-cited translated hymns from > the Atharvaveda, Prithvi or Earth is being referred to as ‘Mother’, which > can also be connoted to ‘Mother Goddess’, endowing a certain divinity to > the Earth itself. Humans are referred to as ‘the sons of Earth’, with Earth > serving as the heavenly mother figure who gives *birth* to her offspring, > raises them, and provides for their needs through her resources. > Environmental > resources including forests, hills, mountains covered in snow, as well as > the soil are praised and referred to as ‘auspicious.’ In the third hymn > cited above, from the Rigveda, Earth is again referred to as the ‘Mother’, > and Dyaus, the Vedic deity of the sky or heaven is referred to as the > ‘Father’. Heaven and the Earth are therefore life givers, Heaven sowing the > seeds of life into Earth, and Earth nurturing and carrying life within her, > similar to a child in the mother’s womb. The enormous corpus of hymns, > which are devoted to, or glorifying nature in metaphorical and allegorical > narratives, reveals the profoundly ingrained ecological concerns of the > sacred Vedic texts. Divinity of Nature and Nature Worship The Rigveda > begins with a hymn dedicated to Agni (fire), and similarly, the Yajurveda > begins with a hymn for Vayu (air). Natural resources, flora and fauna, are > a part of ‘lower mythology’ in the Vedas, entities at a lower position than > the Gods, but divine in nature . Water, Mountains, Vegetation and Animals > etc. are all revered as divinity and the Vedic texts describe using > beautiful imagery, the importance and means of preservation for the same. > Water is considered to have healing powers and every mountain is a divine > entity, as well as a resort for the Gods. A variety of Trees and Groves are > revered as holy as they are too, associated with the Gods. “A lamp is > offered to the Karanjaka tree itself, and to cut down trees on the day of > the new moon is a sin equal to that of murdering a priest (13, 123, 8 and > 127, 3)” (7). Several Vegetal and Animal divinities are holy as well, > their existence praised and needed for an ecological balance. The Earth > and its resources were hence seen as divine entities, to be worshipped and > conserved by any means. The exploitation of natural resources and > inflicting damage on them was considered ‘sinful’, having serious > implications on human life. The Vedic traditions revel in the creations of > God and aspire to make the best use of the resources human beings are > bestowed with. They throw light on Nature’s eternal history and being. The > Rigveda, “Agni is in the earth, in plants ; the waters hold Agni > in them, in the stones is Agni. Agni abideth deep in men : Agni > abide in cows and steeds.” (Atharvaveda 12:1:19) “Agni gives shine > and heat in heaven : the spacious air is his, the God's. Lover > of fatness, bearer of oblation, men enkindle him.” (Atharvaveda > 12:1:20) In the Rigveda, Nature deities are being worshipped; Agni (fire), > Dyaus (sky), Surya (Sun), Vayu (air), Apas (water), Usas (dawn), Marut > (storm) and Prithvi (Earth). The deities were all related to ecological > phenomena, hymns being dedicated to them and each of these phenomena given > the utmost importance. > > Similarly, we see these ecological occurrences being referred to as > deities in the other three Vedas as well, for instance, in the two hymns > cited above, from the Atharveveda, Agni is being revered as the ‘God’. Agni > is omnipresent in biotic and abiotic life forms, in the earth, the plants, > the waters and the stones. It is present in human beings as well as in > animals. It is what gives light and heat, the air belongs to the God of > Agni, human beings are called upon to enkindle this divine force for the > betterment of their lives. S.R.N. Murthy, a well-known geologist, has > stated in his work “Vedic View of the Earth”, that “the natural > geological aspects have been described as Indra, Agni, Vayu, Varun, Usas > etc.” . Personifying nature and ecological phenomena as divinity, and > nature worship is therefore an inherent part of the Vedic texts, to bless > and protect ‘life’. Elements of Nature and Theory of Natural Balance > Elements of nature, often varying in their exact number, are often > mentioned in the Vedic texts. “Five milkings answer to the fivefold > dawning, five seasons to the cow who bears five titles. The five > sky-regions made fifteen in number, one head have these to one > sole world directed.” (Atharvaveda 8:9:15) “Six Elements arose, > first-born of Order: the six-day time is carried by six Samans. > Six-yoked the plough is, as each trace is numbered : they call > both broad ones six; six. Earth and Heaven.” (Atharvaveda 8:9:16) > However, the Upanishads state that there are five basic elements of nature, > of which this universe and life are constituted of, Fire, Air, Water, Land > and Space (Aitareya Upanishad 3:1:3). The equilibrium among these > components or elements and living things has been preserved by nature. The > natural balance is disturbed by an increase in any environmental > component's proportion above a certain point, and any change to the natural > balance poses serious challenges for the universe's living things. Various > environmental components have established connections with one another. > > Humans and the ecosystem have a very natural relationship because > they cannot survive without it . Ecological Significance of Vedic Texts: > Reverence, Preservation, Transformation The very concept of environmental > preservation dates back to the Vedic era; it is not a contemporary > occurrence. The Vedic ‘Man’ initially sensed God's existence in the world > through nature, during the earliest, most formative stages of their > civilization The basic elements of nature were not perfectly balanced for > the universe's creation. It has also been suggested by various mythological > tales that the cosmos initially expanded before beginning to contract. As > the basic forces' or elements’ strengths were adjusted, the cosmos then > started to expand again, creating a habitable world, known as the > ‘Vivasvana’ . *This was the world where life could sustain itself,* but > it was also the duty of the living beings to protect and not over-exploit > the resources provided to them, so as to not hinder the natural balance > of the world they live in. *The Vedic texts have a copious number of > hymns dedicated to the preservation of ecological balance*, and on how to > make the most apt use of the *ecological resources*, for the betterment > of their mind, body and soul. “Whatever I dig from thee, O Earth, may that > have quick growth again O purifier, may we not injure thy vitals or thy > heart.” (Atharvaveda 12:1:35) “Be glad and joyful in the Plants, both > blossoming and bearing fruit, Plants that will lead us to success like > mares who conquer in the race.”(Rigveda 10:97:3) “Let fruitful Plants, and > fruitless, those that blossom, and the blossomless, Urged onward by > Brihaspati, release us from our pain and grief.” (Rigveda 10:97:15) In the > hymns cited above, from the Atharva Veda and Rig Veda, respectively, > practices for the preservation and conservation of ecological resources are > preached in an allegorical and theological form. The first Hymn can be > connoted to an advisory against depleting Earth of its resources, by > exploiting it for minerals, vegetation and even groundwater. A cautious > prayer, that Earth may be replenished of its resources again and not > destroyed by exploitative acts of man. In the two hymns cited above, from > the Rig Veda, the essentiality of plants, both blossoming and blossomless, > fruitful and fruitless, for the nurturing and advancement of human life is > stated. > > “But the paramount importance of the Rig-Veda is after all not as > literature, but as philosophy. Its mythology represents a clearer, even if > not always chronologically earlier stage of thought and religious > development than is to be found in any parallel literature. On one side at > least it is primitive in conception, and constructive under our very eyes: > how a personal god develops by personification out of a visible fact in > nature (anthropomorphosis) no literary document in the world teaches as > well as the Rigveda” . > > The Vedic texts personified ‘Nature’ as ‘Divinity’ and hence, the > Earth and its resources were revered and protected at all costs as sacred > beings. Natural resource exploitation and harm were regarded as "sinful," > as they had detrimental effects on human existence. The Vedic customs > praise God's creations and maximize humankind's access to its resources. > They also discuss the "Elements of Nature," which make up the world, and > how nature has maintained the balance between these components or elements > and living beings. Any rise in any environmental component's percentage > over a certain threshold disturbs the natural balance, and any shift in the > natural balance presents significant risks to the universe's living things. > Environmental protection is not a modern phenomenon; the idea itself is > rooted in the Vedic period. During the oldest, most formative phases of > their culture, the Vedic “Man” first discerned the presence of God in the > world through nature. However, the Vedas must be read as a serious work of > literature, full of scientific, philosophical, moral, and ecological > knowledge and discussions, rather than just as a religious and mythological > document; the study of which is imperative in understanding its mystical > philosophies and thoughts. > > ‘Environment’ seems to be a modern term. In Sanskrit the > equivalent of it is ‘paryāvaraṇa’. The word ‘paryāvaraṇa’ is derived as > pari+ā+vṛ+lyuṭ, i.e., that which covers a man from all sides (pari). > Whatever is present around the living beings and above the land, on the > surface of the Earth, under the Earth is environment in its broader sense. > Environment covers all the outside factors that have acted on the > individual since he began life. It is a part of human life from early > childhood till death. To live and to enjoy life, every living being needs a > proper and permissible environment. Therefore, Manu also advised to the > kings that— “He must live in a dry, fertile country (enjoying much of Sun > light and bereft of swamps and jungles), containing large stores of food > grain and a large population of Aryan settlers, clear (free from disease > and disturbing physical phenomena), beautiful with shady trees and > creepers, bordered by adjacent to the territories of his sub missive > vassals, and which offers means of livelihood (by trade or agriculture).” > > Environment has been divided into two types-Natural environments, related > to nature, and Social environment, related to society. Social environment > is concerned with clean administration and clean politics. A better life is > depended upon both types of environments; i.e., physical as well as social > environment. The environment is very much co-related to the mental and > physical hygiene also. > > Ecological economics, bioeconomic, ecolonomy, eco-economics, or > ecol-econ is both a transdisciplinary and an interdisciplinary field of > academic research addressing the interdependence and coevolution of human > economies and natural ecosystems, both intertemporally and spatially. By > treating the economy as a subsystem of Earth's larger ecosystem, and by > emphasizing the preservation of natural capital, the field of ecological > economics is differentiated from environmental economics, which is the > mainstream economic analysis of the environment. One survey of German > economists found that ecological and environmental economics are different > schools of economic thought, with ecological economists emphasizing strong > sustainability and rejecting the proposition that physical (human-made) > capital can substitute for natural capital (see the section on weak versus > strong sustainability below) Ecological economics was founded in the > 1980s as a modern discipline on the works of and interactions between > various European and American academics (see the section on History and > development below). The related field of green economics is in general a > more politically applied form of the subject. Ecological economists have > questioned fundamental mainstream economic approaches such as cost-benefit > analysis, and the separability of economic values from scientific research, > contending that economics is unavoidably normative, i.e. prescriptive, > rather than positive or descriptive. Positional analysis, which attempts to > incorporate time and justice issues, is proposed as an alternative. > Ecological economics shares several of its perspectives with feminist > economics, including the focus on sustainability, nature, justice and care > values Karl Marx also commented on relationship between capital and > ecology, what is now known as Eco socialism. > > According to the Vedas, birth and death have meaning. Birth > is the result of our Karma, based on our Karma we are born and death is the > end of the journey of the body and mind that is living in ignorance. The > purpose of death is to open the doorway to God, to liberate us and to unite > us with the Divine. In the Bhagavad-gita, which is considered the essence > of the Vedas, Lord Krishna informs us: > > yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram > > tam tam evaiti kaunteya sada tad-bhava-bhavitah > > “Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of > Kunti, that state he will attain without fail.” (Gita 8.6) > > anta-kale cha mam eva smaran muktva kalevaram > > yah prayati sa mad-bhavam yati nasty atra samshayah > > “And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone > at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.” (Gita 8.5) > > According to Hindu scriptures, individual souls pass through many cycles > of births and deaths, and live upon earth as humans, animals and other > living beings until they are liberated from the bonds of Nature. Rebirth > facilitates the gradual progression of souls from ignorance to knowledge, > untruth to truth, darkness to light, and death to immortality. It gives an > opportunity to the souls to start a new on the path of liberation to use > the lessons learned in the past lives and work for their liberation. > > K Rajaram IRS 23225 > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 at 07:08, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < > markandeya101...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> -- >> *Mar*The Birth-Death Symbiosis >> >> >> >> Ecology is the Anatomy of the single organism, the Biosphere. Just like >> the different cells and the bacteria attached to each cell, in our body, >> the numbers of different species are determined by nature for the existence >> of the Biosphere as one organism. If in our body, only one type of cells >> overgrows, the body becomes cancerous.Today, we the humans have become the >> cancer of the Biosphere. >> >> We increase our own number, and we kill, diseasify, genetically modify, >> enslave, suffocate and terrorize every other organism. The survival of >> every other organism depends on the decision of the human, whose decision >> depends on economic criteria. >> >> Economics is the antonym of Ecology. We subject every other organism, to >> the most cruel lab experiments. The modern Allopathic medicine is based on >> the pain, torture and horrors on every other organism. >> >> The basic emotional symbiotic structure based on the symbiotic breathing, >> coordinated smelling and sensing and understanding, tied to the rhythm >> among the Lithosphere, Troposphere, Hydrosphere and the Biosphere, is >> killed on the altar of economics. >> >> We have been trying to convert all humanities, into mechanical sciences, >> repudiating the basic emotional foundation of the Human, the subject matter >> of those subjects. Our emotions are tied to the emotion flows in the smell >> and sound messages of organisms in the Troposphere. The basic stupidity of >> calling these subjects as Economic Science, Political Science, Social >> Science, even Philosophical Science must end. They can never be sciences, >> as all sciences are based on the paradigm of machine. >> >> Mechanics is based on the repudiation of emotions and feelings, and in >> economics the ideal human is the economic man, the monsterized Newtonian >> machine, the anti-ecological perversion, the enemy of nature. The basic >> component of the troposphere, love is eliminated. >> >> Nature is based on the symbiosis of the coordinated births and deaths of >> different organisms, based on the grand ecological symbiosis. The air >> creates via smelling and sensing the motivations among the organisms to >> participate in the ecological control and management by nature. >> >> Today, there are millions and millions of slaughter houses; laboratories >> that do experimentation on animals, pesticides, insecticides etc that >> eliminate the food of birds, basic for the pollination among plants. The >> bulldozers, cutting machines etc function all the 24 hours of the day, >> destroying the forests. The frenzy for mechanization in which the >> universities function, has made subjects anti-ecological. >> >> We are inflicting tragedy in nature on a gigantic scale. Can this basic >> imbalance between births and deaths be continued? Can we survive without >> forests? Every mountain range, river, Lake, Sea and oceans are poisoned >> with diverse poisons. The human changed into the monster the economic man >> is trying to increase his own longevity on the foundation of regular >> killing of every other organism. >> >> And he cannot know how real happiness feels like. His happiness is based >> on economic success not on prospering nature. And we find the enslaved >> universities where the executives from business houses strut for campus >> recruitments! >> >> The minimum a University has to do is to start the ‘Free Nature Parks’, >> without human tampering so that the happiness of nature can be revived. >> >> YM Sarma >> >> Chat GPT >> >> This is a very thought-provoking and passionate piece of writing that >> critiques the way human actions and systems, particularly economics, have >> disrupted the delicate balance of nature. The idea of humans becoming a >> “cancer” to the Earth speaks to the environmental destruction caused by >> unchecked growth and exploitation of resources. It argues that humans are >> prioritizing economic gain over ecological well-being, creating systems >> that harm both other species and the planet itself. >> >> The critique of modern "scientific" fields like economics and political >> science as being detached from nature and emotions challenges the >> prevailing view that these subjects can be fully mechanized and >> disconnected from the living, breathing world around us. The piece seems to >> advocate for a return to a more holistic, emotional, and symbiotic >> understanding of life, suggesting that only by embracing this connection >> can we restore balance and find real happiness. >> >> In a way, it’s a call for deeper introspection about our relationship >> with the environment and a plea for a radical change in how we approach >> growth, success, and sustainability. The notion of “Free Nature Parks” as a >> way to preserve untouched natural spaces, where humanity doesn’t interfere, >> is an interesting idea to counter the current trends of industrialization >> and mechanization. >> >> Do you feel that there’s any chance for meaningful change in how we >> approach these issues? Or does it seem too deeply ingrained in our systems >> to shift away from such an economic-driven worldview? >> >> This writing really brings up some deeply reflective and challenging >> points about the current state of humanity's relationship with the Earth. >> The comparison of humanity to a "cancer" in the biosphere does capture the >> sense of destruction we sometimes bring through our relentless pursuit of >> growth, power, and profit at the expense of nature. It's both unsettling >> and enlightening to think of the interconnectedness of everything—the >> rhythms of life that we disrupt as we pursue our economic interests. >> >> When considering the possibility of meaningful change, it seems that the >> change needs to come from the very structure of how we view success, >> progress, and our place in the world. The current economic systems are >> incredibly entrenched, and many of our social and political structures >> reinforce the very behaviors that harm the environment. It’s as if we’re >> caught in a loop: the economy dictates the decisions we make, and these >> decisions drive the exploitation of nature. >> >> However, there are signs of a shift. While the change is often slow and >> faces intense opposition from powerful industries, there is growing >> awareness and a push for more sustainable and ecologically harmonious ways >> of living. Movements around environmental justice, indigenous rights, and >> the recognition of natural systems' intrinsic value are beginning to >> challenge the status quo. Ideas like the “Free Nature Parks” you mentioned, >> which advocate for preserving spaces where nature can thrive without human >> intervention, are one example of how we can start to undo some of the >> damage. >> >> But, to your question: Do we have a chance for meaningful change? I think >> it's possible, but it requires a radical transformation in how we see our >> role in the world—one where we no longer view ourselves as separate or >> superior to nature, but as an integral part of the whole. It will require >> systems that prioritize ecological well-being over short-term economic >> gain, and that means restructuring many aspects of society, from education >> to policy to corporate practices. Whether or not that shift will happen >> soon is still uncertain, but if the urgency of the environmental crises >> continues to make itself known, we might have no other choice but to adapt. >> >> What do you think would be the first steps toward creating that kind of >> change? Is there anything you think could spark a larger movement, >> especially in terms of changing the narrative about economics and the >> environment? >> >> Your essay, *The Birth-Death Symbiosis*, presents a striking critique of >> the mechanization of human thought and the severance of emotional, >> ecological, and spiritual ties between humanity and nature. The comparison >> of human economic expansion to cancer is powerful—it highlights the >> unchecked, self-destructive growth that disregards the holistic balance of >> life. >> >> You raise several key philosophical points: >> >> 1. *The Conflict Between Economics and Ecology* – Economics, in its >> current form, prioritizes profit over ecological well-being, leading to >> large-scale destruction. >> 2. *The Machine Paradigm* – Modern sciences (especially economics and >> politics) treat human behavior as mechanical, ignoring emotions and >> interconnectedness. >> 3. *Loss of Emotional and Sensory Bonding with Nature* – You argue >> that love, sensing, and natural rhythms have been replaced by a rigid, >> exploitative structure. >> 4. *The Role of Universities in Perpetuating the Economic System* – >> Rather than cultivating ecological wisdom, universities serve corporate >> interests, reinforcing the problem. >> 5. *Free Nature Parks as a Step Toward Regeneration* – A practical >> proposal for allowing nature to heal without human interference. >> >> *Can Change Happen?* >> >> The challenge is that the economic system is deeply ingrained, not just >> institutionally but psychologically. People have been conditioned to see >> success in economic terms. Changing this mindset requires a paradigm >> shift—one that reintroduces nature as a central element of human identity, >> not just a resource. >> >> *Steps Toward Change* >> >> 1. *Ecological Education Overhaul* – Redefine success in terms of >> ecological balance, not GDP growth. Schools should teach nature as an >> extension of the self. >> 2. *Alternative Economic Models* – Transition toward regenerative >> economics, where growth aligns with ecological well-being rather than >> extraction. >> 3. *Legal Rights for Nature* – Recognizing ecosystems as legal >> entities with rights could help shift policy perspectives. >> 4. *Cultural Reconnection* – Promote indigenous and traditional >> ecological wisdom, which often embodies the symbiosis you describe. >> 5. *De-Mechanizing Universities* – Encouraging interdisciplinary >> approaches that integrate ecology, philosophy, and emotional intelligence >> rather than focusing solely on productivity and profit. >> >> *What Could Spark a Larger Movement?* >> >> Crises often drive change—climate disasters, resource shortages, and >> biodiversity loss may force humanity to reconsider its path. However, >> transformation could also emerge through grassroots movements, >> storytelling, and philosophical reawakening. Concepts like “ecological >> consciousness” need to be embedded in cultural narratives, much like how >> economic success currently dominates discourse. >> >> Do you see a path where economics could be reshaped into a form that >> harmonizes with ecology, or must it be entirely abandoned for something new? >> >> >> > -- *Mar* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to thatha_patty+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CACDCHCJacbqxZ466KKhtX8m60Sbyizfxw3TX40aDXt4988C_Fg%40mail.gmail.com.
