Thanks Maxim... I would really love to know more about this. Is there anyone out there that can help with such a set up?
Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 30, 2020, at 2:17 AM, Maxim Solodovnik <solomax...@gmail.com> wrote: > > AFAIK there was successful test with 11 users in audio-only room > So multiple KMS servers can help ... > >> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 15:13, Denis Noctor <denisnoc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi there guys. I was wondering if any further thought or considerations have >> been given to the whole numbers of user per room (vid cam / audio) and >> number of concurrent rooms per instance / server as it is seems to be one of >> the biggest issue / limitations regarding the platform. Any feedback would >> be much appreciated. >> >> All the best, >> Denis. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Denis Noctor <denisnoc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Will check. I know Chrome uses a lot of resources and after your message >>> and some googling “chrome meeting uses lot of cpu”.... there are a lot of >>> links over the last year reporting this... for a number of different >>> browser based meeting platforms. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:43 PM, dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Check the CPU and network on at least one client device >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 2020-11-25 at 12:32 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote: >>>>> I didn’t as I was testing on the open meetings demo next website. >>>>> Probably in the logs if they have not been cleared. If it is possible to >>>>> view that info I could schedule and conduct another test. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 11:10 AM, dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Denis, >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you check the CPU usage on the server and on at least one of the >>>>>> client devices when you got to 8 devices.? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Dennis >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 16:56 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote: >>>>>>> Comment below.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:13 PM dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> It seems to me that there are 2 separate stress points. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Maximum number of KMS streams (this can be addressed with >>>>>>>> clustering). >>>>>>>> 2. Maximum number of users with video and audio that can showing live >>>>>>>> on the client browsers (This may require addressing layout on the >>>>>>>> browsers). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tablets (Android based with Chrome) - all video pods were visible, with >>>>>>> the exception of the problems when I exceed 8. I did not test iOS >>>>>>> devices as mine cannot be update to the latest iOS version / Safari. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, one of my students (Android phone) (who is in a small group >>>>>>> (5)) has been able to view everyone's cam with no problem... though I >>>>>>> would really only recommend a smartphone as a last resort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Picture below: >>>>>>> <tablet_view (2).JPG> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also when you did your tests were smart phones and tablets allowing >>>>>>>> fewer users showing on the browser compared to laptops and desktops? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dennis >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:43 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thanks for that Maxim. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I came across this... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/customize.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (scroll down to "Run three parallel Kurento media servers"). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This appears to suggest that 3 KMS (audio, video and screesharing) >>>>>>>>> processes on one server. Maybe this could bring us one step further? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All the best. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Denis >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:31 AM Maxim Solodovnik >>>>>>>>>> <solomax...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I just have fixed "refresh" button >>>>>>>>>> So audio/video stream can be "refreshed" without page reload >>>>>>>>>> both user-list and video-pod buttons are works according to my tests >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at 17:08, Peter Dähn <da...@vcrp.de> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> this might be because BBB uses 3+ KMS servers clustered >>>>>>>>>>> (I was unable to find direct link regarding it ...) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as far as I know, they use freeswitch for audio and kms just for >>>>>>>>>>> the video streams... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> BR Peter >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Am 23.11.20 um 10:53 schrieb Denis Noctor: >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot Maxim. I am happy to help in anyway for future tests. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 3:43 AM, Maxim Solodovnik >>>>>>>>>>>> <solomax...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for very detailed report Denis >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of thoughts inline: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at 13:59, Denis Noctor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <denisnoc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My sincerest apologies for only getting back to you now. As I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had mentioned in my previous email that I was going through a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal issue and it took longer than I had anticipated to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> back in touch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, as mentioned before, I have been keeping up to date by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading all the emails in the forum over the last few weeks... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and some direct emails also. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also apologize for the length of the email... so maybe you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should grab a coffee. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As mentioned in my previous email, I set up 10 devices to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> connect to Room 7 on the OM demo server - all of which where >>>>>>>>>>>>>> running the latest version of Chrome. 3 machines running Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10, 1 running Windows 8, 4 running Windows 7, 2 Amazon Fires >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (set up to run Chrome) with varying degrees of ram (2, 4, 8 and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 gigs) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The results are as follows: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> After logging in around 8.22pm (Mexico time), 12th November >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (OpenMeetings - Next, 5.1.0-SNAPSHOT, Revision: db7be4b, Build >>>>>>>>>>>>>> date: 2020-11-09T14:57:23Z , I gradually added other devices to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the room. I got to 8. There was a little but of a time lapse... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the sense that I would move from one computer to another... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and could still see myself in one feed after I had move to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another. It is important to note that 2 of the computers (older >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HP's) have a slight webcam issue... (I think there is a fauly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cable... sometimes works sometimes doesn't - but audio/mic was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> working fine). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I added 2 the last two devices, things started to break >>>>>>>>>>>>>> down. The audio quality was clearly reduced... there was a lot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of crackling sounds... and some of the users video pods >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disappeared from some of the devices´screens.... or "empty" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> video pods filled some screens... on some devices.... but were >>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewable on others. Some users appeared to be disconnected, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> though they could continue to view the whiteboards... but had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their audio and video disconnected (icons in orange)... when >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they tried to reconnect... they couldn't... they clicked on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio / vid icons but with no effect... refreshing the screen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes seemed to correct this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> While 8 users seemed to be able to connect okay... there was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> little bit of a time delay. As you can understand, I don't have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> headphones and microphones for each and every computer... so I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spaced them around my house... when I talked... I could hear my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice being repeated... (I am not referring to echo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback).... there was a slight time delay by a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds on some of the devices... moving from device to device. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, with just 5 users in a room, this was not really an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From time to time users experienced other users being >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disconnected or whereby they could see the "empty video pod" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the green border flashing on and off as someone spoke.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but again no audio or video being received.... but it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to see the same users on other devices. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users would try to "refresh" the page... again only having >>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to 4 - 5 users on the page.... and not necessarily seeing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the moderator. I finished testing around 9.50pm. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some additional observations: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based on some of the emails over the last few weeks. It appears >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be that one OM instance can only deal with 3 simultaneous >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rooms with 5 users approx in each room (using audio and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> video)... and based on the above maybe a little more, but at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stretch. This appears to boil down to limitations due to number >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurento / WebRTC connections.... some of you have mention >>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere in the range of 200 - 300 connections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a result I took a look at a few sites regarding BigBlueButton >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (BBB), as it also uses Kurento and WebRTC to get a general idea >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as to how many users can be in a room (with camera and audio). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, a lot of digging had to be done as many of the numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are used are about how many participants can be in a room >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (without cam and mic) with a moderator (using cam and mic). Now >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I apologize for bringing up BBB in conversation, as I am not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> endorsing the platform....reminding me of Harry Potter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Voldemort) "He who shall not be named" :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, it might be worth investigating for ideas on how to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> increase the number of cams / mics in an OM room. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can view this information here: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://support.blindsidenetworks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042272991-How-many-users-can-I-have-in-a-BigBlueButton-session-at-one-time- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly, if you look at the following link it suggests that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the more number of concurrent users... the number of rooms will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be less (but again not taking into consideration cams and mics) : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-users-can-bigbluebutton-support >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, regarding the limited number of users (with cam and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mic), BBB seems to have got arround this by having a window of 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cams that can be scrolled left or right. It appears moderators >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can still view up to 25 cams etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take a look at this: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://support.blindsidenetworks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049799851-September-16-2020-Webcam-viewing-and-recording-updates >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this might be because BBB uses 3+ KMS servers clustered >>>>>>>>>>>>> (I was unable to find direct link regarding it ...) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we might contact BBB devs and ask for the help in KMS >>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration/clustering >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OM Demo Next Server Specs: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Maxim, is it possible to share the specs of the demo server, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ram, cpu, etc, so that we can get a general idea as to what to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> benchmark against. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did share the specs before >>>>>>>>>>>>> here they are >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated server with >>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU: 8x Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 950 @ 3.07GHz >>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM: 24GB >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It hosting >>>>>>>>>>>>> om-demo: 8GB for java >>>>>>>>>>>>> om-next: 4GB for java >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> These instances are using >>>>>>>>>>>>> - same KMS >>>>>>>>>>>>> - same Coturn >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Separate databases at same MySql >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can increase java memory for demo-next if you are planning to >>>>>>>>>>>>> do tests one more time >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the moment I am using AWS, t3a.large (8 gigs Ram , 2 vCPUS). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, I am under the impression that even if I upgrade my AWS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> server... I am not really going to see any major improvements >>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the fact that I am still limited to the number of users >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with cam and mic) per room. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before this whole covid situation, my school had 10 classrooms, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> class size average 10. I would like to be able to have a similar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> virtual set up... but based on all the info above I would need 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - 4 instances (using clustering, which I have never done before) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - but will still have a problem having 11 users (10 students / 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moderator) in a room. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And while I know the following question (as an alternative) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> might be considered ridiculous - can a multiple number of OM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> installations (with multiple KMS etc) be conducted in one server >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - which more ram, cpu power etc? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be great if anyone out there has a successful >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clustering model that they could share - even to test >>>>>>>>>>>>>> across 2 instances. At present, I am using Ubuntu 18.04 on AWS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as described above. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Either way it seems the main obstacle at the moment seems to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> how Kurento and WebRTC can be set up to overcome these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apologies once again for the length of this email and for taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so long to get back in touch. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I've added a few screenshots regarding my test below (one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer's time is 2 hours behind for some strange reason) :)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All the best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Denis. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 12:26 AM Maxim Solodovnik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <solomax...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 14:24, Denis Noctor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <denisnoc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there Maxim... I did a test with 8 computers and 2 tablets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last night (spread across 2 WiFis)... please don’t delete the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logs on the OM demo server (next)... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just backup the logs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will come back to you all with some feedback and pics later >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow (if that’s okay)... however, for reference... I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started the process in the public room #7...start time around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8.22pm (12th Nov) (México... 6 hrs behind) and end time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9.50pm... (if you want to check the logs) .... the short >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version is that 8 users experienced relatively stable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to hear the full version :)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will give you a more detailed feedback once I deal with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal issue. All the best, Denis. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2020, at 9:09 PM, Maxim Solodovnik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <solomax...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll try to answer in one email :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 20:32, dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, Denis, I think your experiment with multiple >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable as then there is only one browser tab or window >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the OM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> room open as a guest on each device. Perhaps that will make a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes, this would be better test (even if "fake" camera is used) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 08:24 -0500, dww wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks, Denis, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Back on Oct. 17 Maxim provided the following Bash script >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to be run on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the machine with a client side browser for the psuedo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > guest users. ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Use another machine to create the room administratively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > and send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > invitations) This is a far simpler way to stress test the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > client side >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > browser. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Dennis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Hello, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > i just have tried the following script >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > started as `./run10.sh 5` >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > everything seems to work, but my CPU was 800% busy (all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > cores were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 100% >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > busy) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > without `--use-fake-device-for-media-stream` parameter I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > had lots of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > permission errors due to camera was "captured" by first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > browser >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > other have reported "Camera busy" error >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > _HASH_HERE_ - should be replaced with real hash (I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > created >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > endless >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > invitation hash to the private conference room) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the script >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > =============================================== >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > #!/bin/bash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > i=$1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > if [ -z "${i}" ]; then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > i=30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > fi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > let "i += 0" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > rm -rf /tmp/delme* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > while ((i--)); do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > #echo "${i}" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > mkdir /tmp/delme${i} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > #local conference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > chromium-browser --user-data-dir=/tmp/delme${i} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --disable-infobars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --no-default-browser-check --allow-insecure-localhost >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --use-fake-device-for-media-stream ' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > https://localhost:5443/openmeetings/hash?invitation=_HASH_HERE_&language=1' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > done >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 01:53 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Hi there everyone, this seems to be the “elephant in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > room” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > discussion, while there has been a HUGE amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > development and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > progress in OM since March (thank you so much @Maxim) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > ... there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the whole issue of, for example, the number of users per >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > room... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > which seems to be about 5-6 (and maybe even to 7) when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > pushed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > limit... with both audio and video being broadcasted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > from all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > users... and, something else.. if there are simultaneous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > classes/sessions being held on the same server... will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > restrict >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > things even further? Is this an overall limitation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian did some AWS based testing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, if i'm not mistaken, the server with 4GB RAM was able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle at least 3 rooms of 5 people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (5.1.0-SNAPSHOT should behave better than 5.0.1) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to increase the number of rooms you can use cluster >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to using a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > browser >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > based approach... or should we be taking approach? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is "The Limit" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KMS can handle only certain amount of multimedia connections >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> additionally there are other limits: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - bandwidth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - CPU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - RAM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - open files (network socket is a file) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Limit" is something I'm not sure how to deal with (yet) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > It was my intention to test out the OM “demo servers” >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > over the last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > weeks but will take today off and try to test 10 real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > device >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > connections... with a combination of desktops, laptops, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > android >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > tablets and maybe even the odd iPhone or two. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple devices has issues with sound (outgoing) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm still investigating this one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > My million dollar question is... prior to WebRTC and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Kurento... was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > it possible to have 5-10 users in a room with audio and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > video >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > seamlessly in previous versions (for example, the old >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > “flash” setup >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > (which will be redundant after Christmas... Chrome etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > notifications) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > and if so, what has changed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes this was possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OM_before_5 was based on Red5 media server >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately it's open source version has no WebRTC support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > If there is anyone out there that has no problem with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > user numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > (using audio and vid)... exceeding a body of 7-10+, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > please let us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > know. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In the meantime, I’ll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > give you my feedback on my tests. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I really appreciate everything that has been done to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > date. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Thanks. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > On Nov 9, 2020, at 4:50 PM, dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Hello Maxim, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > A couple of weeks ago there was an email thread about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the 5 total >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > users >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > for one room, each user with video/microphone under >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Subject: "docker container clustering experiments #1". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For whatever reason you love to start new mail threads :)))) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > case >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > appears the bottleneck is the CPU usage on the client >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > machine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > browser. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > In a response to Denis Noctor on a similar thread you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > mentioned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > try >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the following: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > "please check allowed amount of opened files for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > user who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > starts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > OM/KMS/TURN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > increasing it might help" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Might this help with the issue we discussed? Where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > approximately >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > set the allowed amount of opened files? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KMS seems to drop connections when there is not enough files >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (network socket is a file) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can check the limit for current user using `ulimit -n` >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (`ulimit -a` to see all limits) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to check limit for `nobody` user `su nobody --shell /bin/bash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --command "ulimit -n"` >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to increase the limit i'm changing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `/etc/security/limits.conf` file >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/openmeetings/openmeetings-docker/blob/48b72f4d0f38a0fab2021a0a2e4d6693c61c00be/scripts/om_euser.sh#L35 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (seems to work at Ubuntu) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Also are there any other things that can be tried to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > improve this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > scalability? Are there areas in the code that can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > examined to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > investigate how to improve this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KMS cluster would be ultimate solution, I guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Dennis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > > -- > Best regards, > Maxim
