snap! no... werd. mmmm, TrueThat!. yeeaw. elitism is a self-induced illusionary defense mechanism.
this group... it is what it is (whatever that means since its shifts throughout the year.) i'm glad its here. but i long for something more intimate. i recently tried something. so far its failing as expected. but one night i just tossed up a new group and called it ambiguously... ForThoseOfUs <http://forthoseof.us>. wtf is it? not sure. likely nothing at all. sull On 25 Mar 2007 09:50:04 -0700, ryanne hodson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i think the elitist label is bullshit. > > i think this list is great > people are welcome to rant and rave > and get to the nitty gritty of online video > hell meiser and watkins post novels every day... > > and it's insane how much people help each other tirelessly on this list > to figure out tech stuff. > > i've been on other lists of videomakers > and people aren't nearly as helpful as on this list. > usually the answers/attitudes are "just google it" > or "go find it on a message board" > > so i'd like to sing the praises of this group. > > after visiting the cold harsh lists of other video groups > i gladly return to the videoblogging list for a passionate rant > and friendly fisticuffs daily. (ok it's more than that) > > as for helping people > watkins are you holding any events? > are you getting people to videoblog? > > i think the list you stated > is a good example of what people in this community are capable and willing > to create > and i think that's pretty fucking amazing. > and if you don't think that's enough > it's up to you (and anyone really) > to do something about it. > > i love the videoblogging list > no matter how crazy it can get. > > -ryanne > > > On 24 Mar 2007 16:55:12 -0700, Steve Watkins <[EMAIL > PROTECTED]<steve%40dvmachine.com>> > wrote: > > > > Cheers, although I dont actually think that stuff was a problem or > > really a reflection of any problems the group may have. I spend so > > much time here stating my opinions, that I cant really complain if > > anybody else ever states an opinion about me. > > > > I think its quite normal that people would maybe treat my opinions on > > vlogging differently if I actually vlogged a lot and they could 'see > > me' more. If I had ever had a sucessful web business then my opinions > > on other businesses might be taken differently by some, etc etc. And I > > can see why it might seem weird to spend so much time on a blogging > > group and reading and whining my opinions, when Im not blogging, > > vlogging or doing a business or even having all that much time to > > watch video. > > > > Anyways, I have been someone who moaned here and there about elitism > > or some other aspects of this group, but Ive also been fairly negative > > about possible alternatives. For me the group is healthy if opinions > > are diverse, so I wouldnt mind a few elitist comments here and there > > as it would reflect the fact there must be someone somewher who holds > > such views. Just so long as the whole group doesnt suffer from such > > things. Same with clique stuff, I think there may have been some > > tendencies towards this but it was never the whole group, it was > > clumps of people or even just one person using wording that might have > > sounded elitist, and maybe was or wasnt, it never usually got explored > > in depth, possibly because the label 'elitist' sounds negative so not > > many people think they are guilty of that. > > > > Some of the things that might put newcomers off this group are > > accidental or systemic, or chance. For example there are still threads > > people post that never get responded to. If its someone like me > > posting then it doesnt really matter because I post a lot, but a > > lurker or newbie who posts and is then largely or completely > > unresponded to, may suffer more as a consquence. Generally this isnt a > > huge problem and someoneusually steps up to the plate, or if there is > > silence then it may be for a good reason, or there is jsut too much > > email, but thats the sort of thing I think could be improved on by > > improving systems rather than it being a case of the wrong people > > being here. > > > > So I wouldnt suggest stating another group unless it had some things > > at its core that would make it pretty fundamentally different to this > > group. I dont know quite what this means in practice, but for example > > if the conversations were mostly video then it would feel different. > > > > I mean I wouldnt know if its possible to make the group either more or > > less like it was in the past. Time has moved on, various people have > > various reasons for not posting much to this group, their own personal > > vlog voyage may have moved on. Also not everyone is as willing to > > endlessly repeat themselves as I am, so once they've said everything > > they could think to say here, and the honeymoon burst of initial > > energy has worn off, things change. > > > > Also I suspect that over time various events, arguments, watershed > > moments in this group, make some people wary of bringing up certain > > subjects. The virtual presence of certain strong characters or > > opinions can leave its mark. Over the years of being online, Ive > > occasionally got paranoid in various communities (usually forums) ive > > been in, that my words may be doing more harm than good, which leads > > to me shutting up for months to see if its a better place without me. > > And over the years in this group I have sometimes questioned m worth > > which usually elicits enough replies to make me stick around, but then > > I feel guilty about email traffic being generated arounf the topic of > > me, when I dont really think theres anything very interesting to talk > > about me, which is one of the many reasons Ive struggled to vlog. I > > dont find my life to be all that interesting so I dont want to vlog > > it. On the otherhand I clearly think enough of my own opinions to post > > them endlessly on the web. > > > > As for this group or setting up other groups, you could compare here > > to youtube in a funny sort of way. Both have the upper hand on upstart > > rivals due to having enough users to create a sustained flow on > > content, and both were created long enough ago that the broad topic of > > videoblogging could be encompassed within one group/service. Now years > > have passed and youtube and this group are the 'established players' > > in their respective fields. Upstarts need to either find a niche or do > > it so much better and get lucky/clever enough to gain a critical mass > > of users. Or the established players decline over time until they are > > devoured. > > > > If I miss anything, its lots of specific people who used to say more > > here, and dont seem to say so much these days. But I dont know what it > > would take to get those voices back, dont think there is a magic > > formula or any one cause or person we can attribute to their relative > > silence :( > > > > Well that took ages to write and probably served no useful purpose, > > oops. Im still hoping for alternative ways of this group evolving, but > > Im not sure if a community can be transplanted in such a way. Not that > > it ever was one coherent community, or ever will be, whilst at the > > same time there are already people connected to eachother through this > > group that would continue to keep these relationships regardless of > > what happens to this group. > > > > Of all the things Ive said in this group of late that havent been > > responded to, the most depressing for me was the stuff about how to > > reach out to people who have no idea about this group or the word > > vlogging or maybe even youtube. I love the latest freevlog and all the > > efforts I heard about in the past with node's, and the upcoming super > > happy vlog house stuff, and there is surely rich territory to be > > farmed by vloggers collaborating more, but is there anything else > > people in this group could do to firmly trample any 'elitist' > > labeling, and reach out to the masses who have so far been untouched > > by the vlogging phenomenon? > > > > Cheers > > > > Steve Elbows > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com > > <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com><videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "Harold Johnson" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Great post, Steve -- thanks for your feedback. > > > > > > Yeah, it kind of seemed to me that a couple of the attendees of that > > > videoconference/chat were a bit nonplussed as to why you didn't post > > > video...To me, it's a bit of elitism on their part, which I've > > noticed on > > > this list quite a bit. Seems that some members of this group, > > individually, > > > "don't take kindly to strangers"... > > > > > > ...which is itself all the stranger (pun intended, and the correct > > phrase > > > would actually be "more strange") since you've been a member of this > > list > > > for some time and aren't exactly a "stranger" anymore... > > > > > > There are alot of nice/seemingly nice folks on this list, with good > > > intentions. But I also sense a bit of clique-ishness, which has > > solidified > > > more and more over the past year. Time to start up a new list, > perhaps, > > > something fresh and more open to all... > > > > > > Harold > > > still the Podcaster; > > > lost the domain > > > > > > On 3/12/07, Steve Watkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for the tipoff, I watched about half an hour of it, hope > > I got > > > > all the relevent bits. > > > > > > > > Great aim, I might be remembering wrong but I think part of the > > > > original idea of vlogweek was to encourage others to vlog. Quite how > > > > to achieve this is another question, I dont really know how many > > > > lurkers are on this list that are potential vloggers who havent > > > > managed it yet. As someone mentioned in the chat, youtube (and > > > > similar) certainly lowered the ba to being able to put video online. > > > > And Im not sure I can imagine too many vloggers going on youtube and > > > > promoting this idea of videoblog week. I dunno, its something id > like > > > > to see, but Im really still unsure of the nature of any seperation > > > > that does exist between the 2 groups. Would vlogweek seem silly to > > > > some youtubers? Are there people who make videos but dont like the > > > > term blog or think of themselves as bloggers? Scratches head and > > > > wonders if youtubers will spontaneously do something similar > > > > themselves, totally independently, at some unknown time. Or maybe > not, > > > > maybe every day is vlogday in youtube land. > > > > > > > > Anyway I never really helped with any education/awareness projects > > > > myself, Im unaware of how active the nodes are these days. Off the > top > > > > of my head, if you want to make vlogweek alla bout getting new > people > > > > to start, some people have to go and promote the week in advance, in > > > > places where people arent so aware of this thing, to focus all > efforts > > > > here or even youtube is preaching to the converted a bit. I suppose > Id > > > > also love to know some thoughts from any people who used to vlog and > > > > have now stopped for whatever reason, and wheterh vlogweek can help > > > > focus them to return, or just learn what put them off. > > > > > > > > I was mentioned in the chat as somone who doesnt vlog, and I agree > > > > that I was not a good example of the people you are probably trying > to > > > > reach. Frankly it pains me that anybody really cares whether I am > > > > vlogging, I did make 3 or 4 videos years ago, maybe it was even for > a > > > > vlog-week, I cant remember. One was me saying hello, one was fireant > > > > being shown on a TV monitor (via tv out from graphics card on a pc) > > > > and one was of NASAs world-wind which is an app like google earth. > If > > > > I can get myself sorted to make the sorts of vlogs I want to, then I > > > > shall vlog during vlogweek. > > > > > > > > Funnily enough that stuff Enric was playing with in the chat, > animated > > > > avatar stuff, is something I thought might help me or anybody else > > > > that suffers from shyness or self-image issues or something, to > vlog. > > > > I have pondered for some years as to whether such things built into > > > > mobile phones, could be a saviour of the failed 'video phonecall', > > > > maybe people dont want to be seen like that but wouldnt mind hiding > > > > behind an avatar if it as ggood enough, and was based on live camera > > > > input for facial gestures etc. Its taking a long time for any system > > > > good enough to emerge on the desktop let alone the PC. > > > > > > > > Collaboration also came up and Im fascinated by the subject but I'll > > > > start a new thread on that. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Steve Elbows > > > > --- In > > > > videoblogging@yahoogroups.com<videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com><videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com> > > <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, " > > > > Harold Johnson" > > > > > > > > <harold.johnson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey clowns, > > > > > > > > > > We had a rather excellent videoconference the other day, > especially > > > > (in my > > > > > opinion) when we begun talking about how we might be able to help > > > > others to > > > > > begin videoblogging during the upcoming Videoblogging Week 2007: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://somethingthathappened.com/2007/03/today-i-attended-another.html > > > > > > > > > > Follow the link for more links; jump into the Replay of the > > > > videoconference > > > > > and jump to 18:51 in the recording to see the topic we discussed. > > > > > Essentially, I was thinking that we could come up with a way to > > assist > > > > > others during our upcoming event. > > > > > > > > > > Harold > > > > > http://videoharold.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Pixelodeon-June 9th & 10th > American Film Institute (AFI) LA, CA > From the Computer Screen to the Big Screen > http://pixelodeonfest.com/ > -- > Author of Secrets of Videoblogging ---->http://tinyurl.com/me4vs > Me ----> http://RyanEdit.com, http://RyanIsHungry.com > Educate ----> http://FreeVlog.org, http://Node101.org > Community Capitalism----> http://HaveMoneyWillVlog.com > iChat/AIM ----> VideoRodeo > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
