This is almost definitely the case. On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 2:39 AM Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And this is a problem. > > If ChatGPT uses open content, there is an infringement of license. > > Specifically the CC-by-sa if it uses Wikipedia. In this case the > attribution must be present. > > Kind regards > > On Sun, 5 Feb 2023, 08:12 Peter Southwood, <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> > wrote: > >> “Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing >> sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models” >> This may be a choice that comes back to bite them. Without citing their >> sources, they are unreliable as a source for anything one does not know >> already. Someone will have a bad consequence from relying on the >> information and will sue the publisher. It will be interesting to see how >> they plan to weasel their way out of legal responsibility while retaining >> any credibility. My guess is there will be a requirement to state that the >> information is AI generated and of entirely unknown and untested >> reliability. How soon to the first class action, I wonder. Lots of money >> for the lawyers. Cheers, Peter. >> >> >> >> *From:* Subhashish [mailto:psubhash...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* 05 February 2023 06:37 >> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >> >> >> >> Just to clarify, my point was not about Getty to begin with. Whether >> Getty would win and whether a big corporation should own such a large >> amount of visual content are questions outside this particular thread. It >> would certainly be interesting to see how things roll. >> >> >> >> But AI/ML is way more than just looking. Training with large models is a >> very sophisticated and technical process. Data annotation among many other >> forms of labour are done by real people. the article I had linked earlier >> tells a lot about the real world consequences of AI. I'm certain AI/ML, >> especially when we're talking about language models like ChatGPT, are far >> from innocent looking/reading. For starters, derivative of works, except >> Public Domain ones, must attribute the authors. Any provision for >> attribution is deliberately removed from systems like ChatGPT and that only >> gives corporations like OpenAI a free ride sans accountability. >> >> >> >> Subhashish >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 4:41 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I'm not so sure Getty's got a case, though. If the images are on the Web, >> is using them to train an AI something copyright would cover? That to me >> seems more equivalent to just looking at the images, and there's no >> copyright problem in going to Getty's site and just looking at a bunch of >> their pictures. >> >> >> >> But it will be interesting to see how that one shakes out. >> >> >> >> Todd >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:47 AM Subhashish <psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing >> sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models. >> Getty has just sued Stability AI, alleging the use of 12 million >> photographs without permission or compensation. Imagine if Stability had to >> purchase from Getty through a legal process. For starters, Getty might not >> have agreed in the first place. Bulk-scaping publicly visible text in >> text-based AIs like ChatGPT would mean scraping text with copyright. But >> even reusing CC BY-SA content would require attribution. None of the AI >> platforms attributes their sources because they did not acquire content in >> legal and ethical ways [1]. Large language models won't be large and >> releases won't happen fast if they actually start acquiring content >> gradually from trustworthy sources. It took so many years for hundreds and >> thousands of Wikimedians to take Wikipedias in different languages to where >> they are for a reason. >> >> >> >> 1. https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/ >> >> >> Subhashish >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 1:06 PM Peter Southwood < >> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: >> >> From what I have seen the AIs are not great on citing sources. If they >> start citing reliable sources, their contributions can be verified, or not. >> If they produce verifiable, adequately sourced, well written information, >> are they a problem or a solution? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> *From:* Gnangarra [mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* 04 February 2023 17:04 >> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >> >> >> >> I see our biggest challenge is going to be detecting these AI tools >> adding content whether it's media or articles, along with identifying when >> they are in use by sources. The failing of all new AI is not in its >> ability but in the lack of transparency with that being able to be >> identified by the readers. We have seen people impersonating musicians and >> writing songs in their style. We have also seen pictures that have been >> created by copying someone else's work yet not acknowledging it as being >> derivative of any kind. >> >> >> >> Our big problems will be in ensuring that copyright is respected in >> legally, and not hosting anything that is even remotely dubious >> >> >> >> On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 22:24, Adam Sobieski <adamsobie...@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Brainstorming on how to drive traffic to Wikimedia content from >> conversational media, UI/UX designers could provide menu items or buttons >> on chatbots' applications or webpage components (e.g., to read more about >> the content, to navigate to cited resources, to edit the content, to >> discuss the content, to upvote/downvote the content, to share the content >> or the recent dialogue history on social media, to request >> review/moderation/curation for the content, etc.). Many of these envisioned >> menu items or buttons would operate contextually during dialogues, upon the >> most recent (or otherwise selected) responses provided by the chatbot or >> upon the recent transcripts. Some of these features could also be made >> available to end-users via spoken-language commands. >> >> At any point during hypertext-based dialogues, end-users would be able to >> navigate to Wikimedia content. These navigations could utilize either URL >> query string arguments or HTTP POST. In either case, bulk usage data, e.g., >> those dialogue contexts navigated from, could be useful. >> >> The capability to perform A/B testing across chatbots’ dialogues, over >> large populations of end-users, could also be useful. In this way, >> Wikimedia would be better able to: (1) measure end-user engagement and >> satisfaction, (2) measure the quality of provided content, (3) perform >> personalization, (4) retain readers and editors. A/B testing could be >> performed by providing end-users with various feedback buttons (as >> described above). A/B testing data could also be obtained through data >> mining, analyzing end-users’ behaviors, response times, responses, and >> dialogue moves. These data could be provided for the community at special >> pages and could be made available per article, possibly by enhancing the >> “Page information” system. One can also envision these kinds of analytics >> data existing at the granularity of portions of, or selections of, >> articles. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Adam >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Victoria Coleman <vstavridoucole...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 8:10 AM >> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >> >> >> >> Hi Christophe, >> >> >> >> I had not thought about the threat to Wikipedia traffic from Chat GPT but >> you have a good point. The success of the projects is always one step away >> from the next big disruption. So the WMF as the tech provider for the >> mission (because first and foremost in my view that?s what the WMF is - as >> well as the financial engine of the movement of course) needs to pay >> attention and experiment to maintain the long term viability of the >> mission. In fact I think the cluster of our projects offers compelling >> options. For example to your point below on data sets, we have the amazing >> Wikidata as well the excellent work on abstract Wikipedia. We have >> Wikipedia Enterprise which has built some avenues of collaboration with big >> tech. A bold vision is needed to bring all of it together and build an MVP >> for the community to experiment with. >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Victoria Coleman >> >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2023, at 4:14 AM, Christophe Henner < >> christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> ?Hi, >> >> >> >> On the product side, NLP based AI biggest concern to me is that it would >> drastically decrease traffic to our websites/apps. Which means less new >> editors ans less donations. >> >> >> >> So first from a strictly positioning perspective, we have here a major >> change that needs to be managed. >> >> >> >> And to be honest, it will come faster than we think. We are >> perfectionists, I can assure you, most companies would be happy to launch a >> search product with a 80% confidence in answers quality. >> >> >> >> From a financial perspective, large industrial investment like this are >> usually a pool of money you can draw from in x years. You can expect they >> did not draw all of it yet. >> >> >> >> Second, GPT 3 and ChatGPT are far from being the most expensive products >> they have. On top of people you need: >> >> * datasets >> >> * people to tag the dataset >> >> * people to correct the algo >> >> * computing power >> >> >> >> I simplify here, but we already have the capacity to muster some of that, >> which drastically lowers our costs :) >> >> >> >> I would not discard the option of the movement doing it so easily. That >> being said, it would mean a new project with the need of substantial >> ressources. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Adam Sobieski <adamsobie...@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> With respect to cloud computing costs, these being a significant >> component of the costs to train and operate modern AI systems, as a >> non-profit organization, the Wikimedia Foundation might be interested in >> the National Research Cloud (NRC) policy proposal: >> https://hai.stanford.edu/policy/national-research-cloud . >> >> >> >> "Artificial intelligence requires vast amounts of computing power, data, >> and expertise to train and deploy the massive machine learning models >> behind the most advanced research. But access is increasingly out of reach >> for most colleges and universities. A National Research Cloud (NRC) would >> provide academic and *non-profit researchers* with the compute power and >> government datasets needed for education and research. By democratizing >> access and equity for all colleges and universities, an NRC has the >> potential not only to unleash a string of advancements in AI, but to help >> ensure the U.S. maintains its leadership and competitiveness on the global >> stage. >> >> >> >> "Throughout 2020, Stanford HAI led efforts with 22 top computer science >> universities along with a bipartisan, bicameral group of lawmakers >> proposing legislation to bring the NRC to fruition. On January 1, 2021, the >> U.S. Congress authorized the National AI Research Resource Task Force Act >> as part of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021. >> This law requires that a federal task force be established to study and >> provide an implementation pathway to create world-class computational >> resources and robust government datasets for researchers across the country >> in the form of a National Research Cloud. The task force will issue a final >> report to the President and Congress next year. >> >> >> >> "The promise of an NRC is to democratize AI research, education, and >> innovation, making it accessible to all colleges and universities across >> the country. Without a National Research Cloud, all but the most elite >> universities risk losing the ability to conduct meaningful AI research and >> to adequately educate the next generation of AI researchers." >> >> >> >> See also: [1][2] >> >> >> >> [1] >> https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2023/01/24/national-artificial-intelligence-research-resource-task-force-releases-final-report/ >> >> [2] >> https://www.ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/NAIRR-TF-Final-Report-2023.pdf >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Steven Walling <steven.wall...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 1:59 AM >> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:47 PM Gerg? Tisza <gti...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Just to give a sense of scale: OpenAI started with a $1 billion donation, >> got another $1B as investment, and is now getting a larger investment from >> Microsoft (undisclosed but rumored to be $10B). Assuming they spent most of >> their previous funding, which seems likely, their operational costs are in >> the ballpark of $300 million per year. The idea that the WMF could just >> choose to create conversational software of a similar quality if it wanted >> seems detached from reality to me. >> >> >> >> Without spending billions on LLM development to aim for a >> conversational chatbot trying to pass a Turing test, we could definitely >> try to catch up to the state of the art in search results. Our search >> currently does a pretty bad job (in terms of recall especially). Today's >> featured article in English is the Hot Chip album "Made in the Dark", and >> if I enter anything but the exact article title the typeahead results are >> woefully incomplete or wrong. If I ask an actual question, good luck. >> >> >> >> Google is feeling vulnerable to OpenAI here in part because everyone can >> see that their results are often full of low quality junk created for SEO, >> while ChatGPT just gives a concise answer right there. >> >> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menu_(2022_film) is one of the top >> viewed English articles. If I search "The Menu reviews" the Google results >> are noisy and not so great. ChatGPT actually gives you nothing relevant >> because it doesn't know anything from 2022. If we could just manage to >> display the three sentence snippet of our article about the critical >> response section of the article, it would be awesome. It's too bad that the >> whole "knowledge engine" debacle poisoned the well when it comes to a >> Wikipedia search engine, because we could definitely do a lot to learn from >> what people like about ChatGPT and apply to Wikipedia search. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/6OBPB7WNHKJQXXIBCK73SDXLE3DMGNMY/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> 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