On 11/2/07, still want to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I suppose I see limitations in the singular Dj as a bio feedback sensor. At > least I > don't herald the the role of the Dj as much as I used to.
why? what has changed? seen too many crappy deejays? > Besides .. what I am suggesting is to providing a Dj more input sources to > work > more information to manipulate. Real-time organic inputs that are a result > of the > situation that is occuring. Then shifting their position as the central > figure to one > that perhaps working in collaboration with many other to facilitating the > audience > experience. but that is already EXACTLY what happens. > Haven't we been through the whole exercise as Dj being God! im not sure how what i have said can be interpreted as such. in fact, i said many things exaxctly contrary to that idea. > Maybe we will end up like the chess world where we try to build a machine that > can mix better the Jeff Mills ?? > > I'm not particularly interested in the ultimate machine DJ. But I am > interested in > where technology can take the performance of music. based on what, though? its been years of serato, final scratch, ableton live, etc etc and none of them have produced an experience greater than someone with a good set of records and some soul interacting with a good crowd. why is it that this way can't be the best way? > If everything has happened before and there is nothing new under the sun, > then where am I supposed to locate myself as a free thinking individual. why do you care?!?! i just dont understand this philosophy: "i must be different simply because i can be". > You are prescribing me a role of either being the artist or the audience. and the problem with this is? > What's wrong with removing this separation? Whats wrong with blurring the > line between who is in control and who is being controlled? because those lines are already as blurred in a deejay set as they can be. it all works together flawlessly. i dont want joe blow who doesn't know jack sh*t about music controlling *my* experience. i want the person whose job it is to be awesome at deejaying to be able to do his own thing in conjunction with the energy from the crowd. > One of the documented and often celebrated aspects of original rave culture > was how it made everyone part of the experience. People revelled in the idea > that their presence in the dance was significant. this was not new. as someone else mentioned, you simply must read "love saves the day", these ideas were what disco culture was built upon going back to the ealy 70's! > The music responded to and initiated the tribal, collective nature of the > dance. > The shift away from ego centric front of house production enlightened people > in a way that was reminiscent of beating drums around a fire ?? > > Why is it such a challenge to suggest we continue to explore this more > collective energy in the music? its been explored! as you say, this whole idea goes back to some of the most "primitive" forms of music and musical interaction. > You are arguing that you want to experience the artist in the music, yet you > are > also saying that the artist is a feedback filter to the audience. So why not > open > up this process reduce the mediation and increase the feedback? in a feedback system, you need to be very precise about what you are measuring and how you then correct it. its not a "hey, lets cram as many sensors in this as possible and see what we can come up with. maybe this system can control itself!". thats just not how it works, not every variable matters, not every idea is going to be a good one. > If technology is enabling us to reproduce, trigger, sample, filter, effect and > manipulate music in increasingly complex ways.. why could an artist or group > of artists not be enabled to enable the audience to be in control of their own > experience . because i dont trust 99% of the people who are already in charge of the music in a club, the supposed "deejays", and their job is to understand how to do this properly. and if they cant do it, what makes you think that adding the input of every single person is going to suddenly make it better? youre going to constantly end up with least common denominator crap. the beauty of the real deejay who knows what he is doing is that he knows how to give what people want and expect but also at the same time give them other things that they dont know or expect. > In an advanced way this is continuing to take music back to its roots, where > everyone was a contributor to the rhythm. Where all the voices in the village > made the melody together. this already happens. > Why not break down this continual separation and isolation of people from each > other. Sure its challenging, slightly feral, non-commercial way to think .. this already happens. > But in a world where nothing is new, and everything has been done .. then > maybe > this is something that we could do with all our latest toys .. which is to go > all the > way back to "Africa" and be completely tribal by allowing everyone to be a > part > of the music. this already happens. youre trying to correct things that have been the exact purpose of dance clubs for 30+ years now, man. maybe you are just going to the wrong places and seeing the wrong deejays with the wrong crowds. > Well ... to my knowledge some of the PA setups that we were using in the > early 90's had never been done before. but im thinking that your knowledge is limited in this field. do you know who richard long is? how about alex rosner? david mancuso? http://www.theloftnyc.com/artofdjing.htm rave piggybacked on what was done in the 70's. > Maybe they don't do it where you guys are. But here rave systems are setup > so that all the speakers face towards the centre. The sound surround the > dance floor and envelopes the audience from all sides. > > No other event that uses amplified sound for music will do this usually. read "love saves the day". > So I had always considered this a new way of experience music. Over the > years many people have commented to me that it was this immersions in > the music that formed a life changing experience for them. > > It could perhaps be compared to the architecture of cathedrals, or the natural > reverberation of large caves where sound is reflected back at the listener > from > all directions, giving them a rare and unique sonic experience > > I'm not sure what lead people to set the sound systems up in this way, and > weather it was intentional based on some sense of historical understanding of > sonic power or some crazy idea at the time, who knows. However it has become > an unassuming trade mark of electronic music and Dj culture in my region. it is used constantly, all over the place, for the past 30 years. > Personally I can't separate a piece of vinyl from a sound system. The vinyl > itself > does not make any sound. ?!?! thats funny, why dont you try turning off your mixer and all amplifiers and put a record on a record player and put the needle down. now lean in really close to that needle, you will physically hear the music being played as soundwaves. > While some people might be fixated on the vinyl or recordings and their > significance in the world of music. I remain fixated on the sound systems > that > produce the sounds that are interpreted as music. > Its a complex chain of affairs .. but is the artist the person who records > the record > or the person who builds the sound system? Or is it the Dj who plays the > record > or the Engineer who tunes the system and the frequencies that you hear. you REALLY need to read "love saves the day", you might hear about this one guy from NYC, he deejayed, controlled the lighting, was his own sound system engineer, helped invent bass woofers and other speaker arrays. his name was larry levan. > I'm not prepared to decide myself, but I am prepared to challenge the existing > ideology in order to create something different. youre just challenging nothing! to break the rules you have to know them, first. tom
