that one thing, a paper audit trail, would squelch much of the discussion concerning electronic voting. voting has always been something that borders on sacred for a lot of those that vote. the fact that one's vote could be easily manipulated and then lost to the ether definitely played into a lot of the pre-vote fear about EV. but i dont think it was just about the pre vote fears. now that the vote has occurred, and there were massive voter turnouts, paper trails would have gone a long way to instill confidence in the system, especially for those that first time voters didnt vote for bush..i personally think the voter turnout was the most amazing thing about this campaign..the fact that a lot of people, on both sides, spent most of their day standing in line to vote, and some after having to make a plea to a magistrate in order to go stand on line, was incredible..the campaign workers on both sides should definitely take a bow..
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tyler, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You guys are amusing. The posts are fun to read. Just don't get too > excited. I have to say JJ that the issue of unconfirmable votes, > failability of electronic voting, etc. were all part of the motivation for > the Help America Vote Act. It is universally acknowledged that the goals of > the Act have not been met at all by almost all states. The Economist wrote > a very good expose on the problem called "No Way To Run A Democracy." The > Economist is extremely well respected, generally conservative and supported > Bush in 2000. The article shows a great deal of concern for many failings > of the American electoral process but specifically pointed to the use of any > existing electronic technology that isn't simulataneously confirmed by an > actual paper vote. This concern doesn't fade no matter who got elected. > Saying just "move on" doesn't resolve the issue and if the election was > proper and fair it should withstand scrutiny. Isn't that right? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Tedesco [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:45 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Fix or Repair Daily: Think about it- Diebold > > > > > you are the only one pissing, and you are pissing all over yourself > > you dont seem to want to stay on one topic, but rather want to throw > wild drunken punches at any shadows you can.. > > that being said... > > nice resume, it explains a lot and certainly accounts for the > bellicose nature of your posts..you must have left the part about > being a great ballplayer out, cause i don't see how you got through > school with your obvious lack of reading comprehension..my post was > in jest, as i pointed out half way through, i would assume that you > understand the electoral college.my main point was that you brought > up an entirely meaningless point, as you have been all along..i > should know by this point that sarcasm is lost on you, i mean i was > really expecting you to take me to task for asking you if "AP" in > another post was asbury park..was all set to point out the fact that > i was playing a variation on the theme of your previous post.. > > but to address your 'concerns'..you have me beat..i didnt go to > college, hell i didnt graduate high school. > i do feel the need to point out that while i am sure you served > with valor and courage, you did not serve 'for me'..the invasion of > somalia was for BBG, the head of the UN at the time.. the UN went in > because they didnt like the leader that 2/3 of the country selected > as their leader, it should be noted that he was not the incumbent..i > know i am oversimplifying, but there was nothing remotely related to > me..as for Kosovo, it was not about freedom here, but rather about > freedom there..BM was no threat to us here, had no WMD and certainly > was no hitler in regards to an international threat, but was indeed a > vicious man..i do agree with the US involvement in Kosovo, but unless > you are talking in the abstract ("there but for the grace of god go > i...") you did nothing for me there either.. > so using the same logic, i guess maybe i have done something for > you, because the homeless guy that i bought food for at the 7-11 > yesterday could have been you, or the elderly lady that i helped > change a tire for last week could have been you.. > as for the islamofascist crap, i dont recall any iraqi citizens as > part ofthe terrist hijacking ring, and the 15,000 dead that you > mentioned last week in your capt caveman post were most likely > afghani, not iraqi.. you need to reasses the reasons we are in iraq, > and then take a close look at what 'progreess' cvan be claimed..no > WMD, no chemical trailers, hell we even misplaced 400+ tons of > weapons.. > > once again, i will enetertain any reasonable conversation, and in > the mean time be entertained by what you seem to be offering.. > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jerseyjohn99" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > okay, would you like to bring the pissing contest down to which > > elite colleges we attended? would you believe Princeton actually > DID > > graduate a conservative? > > > > How about Princeton DOES have a ROTC program, and it DID graduate > > quite a few 2nd LTs? And after graduating from Princeton, I served > > my country prouldy in Somalia & Kosovo, and if it wasn't for my two > > sons, I would kill a few islamofascists for you in Iraq. > > > > what have you done for me? > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tony Tedesco" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > i have to admit, i strongly overestimated you..here is a basic > > > overview of population distribution and its relation to the > > process > > > which we have (it's called an 'electoral college'..don't get your > > > hopes up, its not a college where you can get a degree from > > elective > > > courses alone..here maybe this link can help > > > http://tinyurl.com/6wh6d , by the way..all kidding aside, thanks > > for > > > the tinyurl tip)...now if you want to talk about massive voter > > > turnout, the popular vote, or the ramifications on the voters > > psyche > > > by kerry's concess (or the fact that it ohio didnt ultimately > > > matter..if it went to the house, bush still wwould win by 4)..i > am > > > game > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jerseyjohn99" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > or would you rather talk about the 31-19 States voting for > Bush? > > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jerseyjohn99" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln, and Lincoln had a > > > > > secretary named Kennedy. > > > > > > > > > > If you take the letters in Asbury Park, substitute a d for > the > > s, > > > > > you get YUR BAD KRAP. is that a signal for everybody to stay > > away? > > > > > > > > > > guys, it's okay to take the tinfoil hats off now. > > > > > > > > > > while you were fuming over Bush being selected, not > > elected...you > > > > > are missing the big picture, happening right here in Asbury > > Park. > > > > > > > > > > Since President Gore's election in 2000: > > > > > > > > > > Your city manager pleaded guilty of accepting bribes for > > > > > Redevelopments. > > > > > > > > > > Your city manager signed a redevelopment agreement, then > > promptly > > > > > went to Newark & pleaded guilty for accepting bribes for > > > > > redevelopment. > > > > > > > > > > The redevelopers who signed the redevelopment agreement, with > > the > > > > > city manager, who signed the redevelopment agreement, then > > > > promptly > > > > > went to Newark & pleaded guilty for accepting bribes for > > > > > redevelopment, have not built ONE SINGLE STRUCTURE since > > signing > > > > the > > > > > redevelopment agreement, with the city manager, who signed > the > > > > > redevelopment agreement, then promptly went to Newark & > > pleaded > > > > > guilty for accepting bribes for redevelopment. > > > > > > > > > > The Redeveloper, who signed the redevelopment agreement, with > > the > > > > > city manager, who signed the redevelopment agreement, then > > > > promptly > > > > > went to Newark & pleaded guilty for accepting bribes for > > > > > redevelopment, have DESTROYED the ONE PIECE of architecture, > > > which > > > > > unites Bruce Springsteen to the City, which signed an > > agreement, > > > > > with The Redeveloper, who signed the redevelopment agreement, > > > with > > > > > the city manager, who signed the redevelopment agreement, > then > > > > > promptly went to Newark & pleaded guilty for accepting bribes > > for > > > > > redevelopment. > > > > > > > > > > We can go on...you all remember the Nursery Rhyme... > > > > > > > > > > This is the farmer sowing the corn, > > > > > That kept the cock that crowed in the morn, > > > > > That waked the priest all shaven and shorn, > > > > > That married the man all tattered and torn, > > > > > That kissed the maiden all forlorn, > > > > > That milked the cow with the crumpled horn > > > > > That tossed the dog, that worried the cat, > > > > > That chased the rat , that ate the malt, > > > > > That lay in the house that Jack built. > > > > > > > > > > Or we can discuss what's going on in Asbury Park... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tony Tedesco" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been following the whole CIA/Diebold/Bush/E&S/GOP > > > > > connection > > > > > > for a while. the fact that the SAIC head (Owens) was a > > military > > > > > aide > > > > > > under Carlucci and Cheney. We all know where Chaney is, > > > Carlucci > > > > > is > > > > > > working with the Carlyle Group (Bush Sr). Add to that the > > fact > > > > > that > > > > > > Robert Gates, a former CIA director, is alsoon the SAIC > > > > board..oh > > > > > > yeah, Wally O'Dell (Diebold head and coincidentally, a top > > bush > > > > > > donor) stated, for the record, to deliver Ohio's votes..but > > > > thats > > > > > ok, > > > > > > because Diebold is not the only electronic voting machine > > > > > > manufacturer..there is E&S,but wait the head of E&S is Todd > > > > > > Urosevich, brother of Bob Urosevich - the head of Diebold's > > > > > election > > > > > > division!! one other 'small' point..both these guys got > > their > > > > > start > > > > > > with $$ from Howard Ahmanson (Council for National > > > Policy..check > > > > > out > > > > > > their base..it brings a new dimension to the word 'bush'.. > > is > > > > > > idefinitely begs to be looked into.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > for the next one, i find the nect to last story to be > > > fascinating > > > > > > http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00234.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here is a great piece from the Cleveland Plain Dealer (who > > > broke > > > > > the > > > > > > CIA-Diebold link, i have included a sample paragraph: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cleveland.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/8371.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===================================================================== > > > > > = > > > > > > Bev Harris, who has since written a book, "Black Box > Voting: > > > > > Ballot > > > > > > Tampering in the 21st Century" (available free from the > site > > > > > > http://www.blackboxvoting.org), received 7,000 of the > > Diebold > > > > > > documents. Among them was a memo by GES employee Lana Hires > > to > > > > her > > > > > > supervisor during the 2000 election: "I need some answers," > > she > > > > > > writes. "Our department is being audited by the county. I > > have > > > > > been > > > > > > waiting for someone to give me an explanation as to why > > > Precinct > > > > > 216 > > > > > > gave Al Gore a minus 16,022 votes when it was uploaded. > Will > > > > > someone > > > > > > please explain this so that I have the information to give > > the > > > > > > auditor instead of standing here `looking dumb?'" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===================================================================== > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > this bit, i have not researched, and i have nothing to back > > it > > > > up. > > > > > > but if it's true it definitely should raise some > > > questions..this > > > > > was > > > > > > in regards to the 2002 election, there results were all in > > > favor > > > > > of > > > > > > the GOP in electronic voting districts, and they all won by > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > exact amount of votes..18,181..quite a coincidence > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Scheel (TX) > > > > > > Carter Casteel (TX) > > > > > > Jeff Wentworth (TX) > > > > > > Candice Miller (MI) > > > > > > Michael Smigiel (MD) > > > > > > > > > > > > i got this from voxfux ( www.voxfux.com ) ..it is streaming > > in > > > > the > > > > > > banner at the top of the home page..i should say that this > > site > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > very, very conspiracy oriented site, but they do often back > > > > their > > > > > > stories up with mainstream media sources, etc..they have an > > > > > > incredible story.. http://tinyurl.com/25efr ..this was > > atually > > > > > front > > > > > > page news in the washington post, and i have seen a > > documentary > > > > on > > > > > > this topic...if it is true, as it appears to be, it is > truly > > > > > > reprehensible... > > > > > > > > Yahoo! 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