--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"> Your quote accused conservative of hate and fear mongering. The
> posts were disprove your point - it's the libs that are unhinged."
No Sir, you said Liberals alway change the subject in a response to a
post I wrote about separating marriage from the state. I replied
that I wasn't changing a subject, but contributing my own thought on
the topic which had already begun.
I simply replied to you with a question about Conservatives trying to
scare people and stir up anger and hatred by fear mongering. No one
is shouting to kill McCain or Palin at Obama rallies.
You came back with some angry people threatening a woman who exists
to be the voice of soccer moms everyhwere. I gave you some very
clear examples and quotes from Republicans on the original topic -
civil rights for gay couples.
I did name the wrong law as the source of the debate DOMA. These
debates were over the the 2006 Federal Marriage Amendment not the
Defense of Marriage Act. It is the words stated that are scary. The
amendment didn't pass.
Other quotes on the same topic:
Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said he will vote
against the measure on the floor but allowed it to get there in part
to give the GOP the debate party leaders believe will pay off on
Election Day.
Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada "The reason for this
debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another. This is
another one of the presidents efforts to frighten, to distort, to
distract and to confuse America. It is this administration's way of
avoiding the tough, real problems that American citizens are
confronted with each and every day."
"It's politics. It's pandering and it's placating a core
constituency, the evangelicals" San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom
You wrote "If you are for equalizing gay rights, you have no dog in
this Presidential hunt. Both candidates said at debate they agree
with one another - neither will equalize the marriage rights (rather
lack thereof) for gays."
The current presidential election? I didn't bring that up at all.
Still, I knew some have spoken up so here's their own words on the
topic.
>From the VP Debate
Q: Would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of the
nation?
PALIN: Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the
traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. And
unfortunately that's sometimes where those steps lead. I don't
support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one
woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about
what that actually means. I'm being as straight up with Americans as
I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional definition of
marriage.
Q: Let's try to avoid nuance. Do you support gay marriage?
BIDEN: No. We do not support that. That is a decision to be able to
be left to faiths.
PALIN: My answer is the same as his and it is that I do not.
Marriages are an institution of faith and civil unions are an
institution of state. Sounds like Joe agrees.
That famous executive experience of Palin's was often used to fight
gay civil unions. Sarah Palin fought Alaska's civil union laws.
Palin said she supported Alaska's decision to amend its Constitution
to ban same-sex marriage. But she used her first veto as governor to
block a bill that would have prohibited the state from granting
health benefits to same-sex partners of public employees. Ms. Palin
said she vetoed the bill because it was unconstitutional, but raised
the possibility of amending the state Constitution so the ban could
pass muster.
Governor Sarah Palin today announced that, per the recent ruling of
the Supreme Court of Alaska, the State of Alaska's regulations are in
effect to begin providing state benefits to same sex partners
beginning January 1, 2007. "The Supreme Court has ordered adoption of
the regulations by the State of Alaska to begin providing benefits
January 1," said Governor Palin. "We have no more judicial options.
We may disagree with the rationale behind the ruling, but our
responsibility is to proceed forward with the law and follow the
Constitution."
In addition to adoption of the regulations, Governor Palin signed
HB4002 today, which calls for a statewide advisory vote, proposed by
the Legislature during its November special session. "I disagree with
the recent court decision because I feel as though Alaskans spoke on
this issue with its overwhelming support for a Constitutional
Amendment in 1998 which defined marriage as between a man and woman.
But the Supreme Court has spoken and the state will abide.
Source: Alaska Governor's Office: Press release 06-012, "Same Sex"
Dec 20, 2006
Palin said she's not out to judge anyone and has good friends who are
gay, but that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment.
Elected officials can't defy the court when it comes to how rights
are applied, she said, but she would support a ballot question that
would deny benefits to homosexual couples. "I believe that honoring
the family structure is that important," Palin said. She said she
doesn't know if people choose to be gay.
Source: Anchorage Daily News, "Little play," by K. Hopkins Aug 6,
2006
Q: Do you support the Alaska Supreme Court's ruling that spousal
benefits for state employees should be given to same-sex couples?
A: No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens
as defined in our constitution.
Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul
31, 2006
Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if
elected governor?
A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the
venues of education for their children.
2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our
constitution.
3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug
use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd
Amendment rights.
Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul
31, 2006
Before you conclude that I am misinterpreting Biden's civil union
stand here's his opinion.
Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if
elected governor?
A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the
venues of education for their children.
2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our
constitution.
3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug
use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd
Amendment rights.
Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul
31, 2006
Barack Obama
Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said
that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer.
Do you believe homosexuality's a curse?
A: No.
Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or that
you can change your behavior?
A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I
disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as
president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with,
and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I
think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching
out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant
progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able to get
beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. I've
tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell
them very clearly where I disagree.
Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11,
2007
Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said
that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer.
Do you believe homosexuality's a curse?
A: No.
Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or that
you can change your behavior?
A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I
disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as
president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with,
and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I
think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching
out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant
progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able to get
beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. I've
tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell
them very clearly where I disagree.
Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11,
2007
The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black
churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can point
out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of seeing two
men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I
haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is more
important to the black family than the fact that black men don't have
any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly
disagree with you.
Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black
churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can point
out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of seeing two
men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I
haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is more
important to the black family than the fact that black men don't have
any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly
disagree with you.
Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
Q: You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual
religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same-
sex marriage. What place does the church have in government-
sanctioned civil marriages?
A: It is my strong belief that the government has to treat all
citizens equally. I don't think that the church should be making
these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the
state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to
make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex
couples. My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other
denominations may make a decision, and obviously, part of keeping a
separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches
have the right to exercise their freedom of religion.
Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
Obama may not support marriage for gays. He does support equal
rights under civil unions. McCain on the other hand supports
legislation that takes away the right constitutionally
McCain announced his support last week for the California ballot
measure, known as Prop. 8. "I support the efforts of the people of
California to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a
man and a woman, just as we did in my home state of Arizona," he said.
Source: By Michael Finnegan and Cathleen Decker, Los Angeles Times
Jul 2, 2008
Obama has said a lot more. He's appeared in debates on LOGO. I
don't want to be unfair to McCain here. He hasn't overtly opposed
rights to gays. I will leave their words to speak for them.
However, I never asked about the current presidential election. I
only asked about Conservatives.
If anyone is interested in how the candidates stand on different
areas of civil rights you can visit www.onthe issues.org
I don't want rights that other people cannot have. It feels
unbalanced. I think of Laurel Hester who fought to her dying breath
to have her hard earned pension awarded to her partner.
There is sometimes no excuse for the inexcusable.
BTW, I admire some aspects of the original almost altruistic
conservative movement. Those old small government guys weren't
trying to discriminate against any one group. The Republicans of
yore were the party of Lincoln. If I lived, 150 years ago I would be
a Republican. I couldn't vote, but I'd be a Republican. The
original party founders must be looking down with horror at the
current one. I don't doubt that quite a few living ones are too.
I've just read an interview with one - Christopher Buckley, the son
of William F. Buckley, Jr. I hope you're more Buckley than Bush.
Best,
Jennifer
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