Jack how do you post this without responding at all to the fact that only a Democrat President has passed laws hurting gays?
You go straight to name calling. Nothing to say about the fact that only a Democrat President had hurt gays and Republicans haven't? It's not a fair statement to say 'Democrats hurt gays" when only a Democrat President as hurt them not once but twice? Address the issue. I dare you. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Democrats hurt gays. > Probably the most ignorant comment I've ever read here. > I can't wait for this election to be over, because the hardcore republicans appear to be > freaking out in desperation. Fox news was falling all over itself this morning to find new > ways to put Obama down while grasping at straws. > What's going to happen to all of the over-zealous republicans next week when Obama > wins? Are you all going to go hide under your beds in fear? > And what happens when Obama actually does good for our country? Are you going to find > a way to trash him then? > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" <justifiedright@> wrote: > > > > You say below that Biden wants to "preserve the definition of marriage > > in the constitution." > > > > Is that another Biden gaffe? Where does the constitution have a > > definition of marriage? > > > > Either he didn't say it and your source is wrong, or he's made yet > > another of many silly gaffes. > > > > Sorry to burst your bubble Jennifer but there have only been 1 > > executive order and 1 law signed by an American President. > > > > Both were against gays. Both were signed by Democrat Bill Clinton. > > > > No Republican President has signed a law or order against gays. > > > > George Bush had a Republican House and Senate for 6 years and didn't > > do it. > > > > Democrat Bill Clinton did. > > > > Open your eyes - Democrats hurt gays. > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <jennifernjca@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" > > > <justifiedright@> wrote: > > > > > > "> Your quote accused conservative of hate and fear mongering. The > > > > posts were disprove your point - it's the libs that are unhinged." > > > > > > No Sir, you said Liberals alway change the subject in a response to a > > > post I wrote about separating marriage from the state. I replied > > > that I wasn't changing a subject, but contributing my own thought on > > > the topic which had already begun. > > > > > > I simply replied to you with a question about Conservatives trying to > > > scare people and stir up anger and hatred by fear mongering. No one > > > is shouting to kill McCain or Palin at Obama rallies. > > > > > > You came back with some angry people threatening a woman who exists > > > to be the voice of soccer moms everyhwere. I gave you some very > > > clear examples and quotes from Republicans on the original topic - > > > civil rights for gay couples. > > > > > > I did name the wrong law as the source of the debate DOMA. These > > > debates were over the the 2006 Federal Marriage Amendment not the > > > Defense of Marriage Act. It is the words stated that are scary. The > > > amendment didn't pass. > > > > > > Other quotes on the same topic: > > > Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said he will vote > > > against the measure on the floor but allowed it to get there in part > > > to give the GOP the debate party leaders believe will pay off on > > > Election Day. > > > > > > Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada "The reason for this > > > debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another. This is > > > another one of the presidents efforts to frighten, to distort, to > > > distract and to confuse America. It is this administration's way of > > > avoiding the tough, real problems that American citizens are > > > confronted with each and every day." > > > > > > "It's politics. It's pandering and it's placating a core > > > constituency, the evangelicals" San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom > > > > > > You wrote "If you are for equalizing gay rights, you have no dog in > > > this Presidential hunt. Both candidates said at debate they agree > > > with one another - neither will equalize the marriage rights (rather > > > lack thereof) for gays." > > > > > > The current presidential election? I didn't bring that up at all. > > > Still, I knew some have spoken up so here's their own words on the > > > topic. > > > > > > From the VP Debate > > > > > > Q: Would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of the > > > nation? > > > > > > PALIN: Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the > > > traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. And > > > unfortunately that's sometimes where those steps lead. I don't > > > support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one > > > woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about > > > what that actually means. I'm being as straight up with Americans as > > > I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional definition of > > > marriage. > > > > > > Q: Let's try to avoid nuance. Do you support gay marriage? > > > > > > BIDEN: No. We do not support that. That is a decision to be able to > > > be left to faiths. > > > > > > PALIN: My answer is the same as his and it is that I do not. > > > > > > Marriages are an institution of faith and civil unions are an > > > institution of state. Sounds like Joe agrees. > > > > > > That famous executive experience of Palin's was often used to fight > > > gay civil unions. Sarah Palin fought Alaska's civil union laws. > > > Palin said she supported Alaska's decision to amend its Constitution > > > to ban same-sex marriage. But she used her first veto as governor to > > > block a bill that would have prohibited the state from granting > > > health benefits to same-sex partners of public employees. Ms. Palin > > > said she vetoed the bill because it was unconstitutional, but raised > > > the possibility of amending the state Constitution so the ban could > > > pass muster. > > > > > > Governor Sarah Palin today announced that, per the recent ruling of > > > the Supreme Court of Alaska, the State of Alaska's regulations are in > > > effect to begin providing state benefits to same sex partners > > > beginning January 1, 2007. "The Supreme Court has ordered adoption of > > > the regulations by the State of Alaska to begin providing benefits > > > January 1," said Governor Palin. "We have no more judicial options. > > > We may disagree with the rationale behind the ruling, but our > > > responsibility is to proceed forward with the law and follow the > > > Constitution." > > > > > > In addition to adoption of the regulations, Governor Palin signed > > > HB4002 today, which calls for a statewide advisory vote, proposed by > > > the Legislature during its November special session. "I disagree with > > > the recent court decision because I feel as though Alaskans spoke on > > > this issue with its overwhelming support for a Constitutional > > > Amendment in 1998 which defined marriage as between a man and woman. > > > But the Supreme Court has spoken and the state will abide. > > > > > > Source: Alaska Governor's Office: Press release 06-012, "Same Sex" > > > Dec 20, 2006 > > > > > > Palin said she's not out to judge anyone and has good friends who are > > > gay, but that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment. > > > Elected officials can't defy the court when it comes to how rights > > > are applied, she said, but she would support a ballot question that > > > would deny benefits to homosexual couples. "I believe that honoring > > > the family structure is that important," Palin said. She said she > > > doesn't know if people choose to be gay. > > > > > > Source: Anchorage Daily News, "Little play," by K. Hopkins Aug 6, > > > 2006 > > > > > > Q: Do you support the Alaska Supreme Court's ruling that spousal > > > benefits for state employees should be given to same-sex couples? > > > A: No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens > > > as defined in our constitution. > > > > > > Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul > > > 31, 2006 > > > Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if > > > elected governor? > > > A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the > > > venues of education for their children. > > > 2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our > > > constitution. > > > 3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug > > > use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd > > > Amendment rights. > > > > > > Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul > > > 31, 2006 > > > > > > Before you conclude that I am misinterpreting Biden's civil union > > > stand here's his opinion. > > > > > > Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if > > > elected governor? > > > A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the > > > venues of education for their children. > > > 2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our > > > constitution. > > > 3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug > > > use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd > > > Amendment rights. > > > > > > Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul > > > 31, 2006 > > > > > > Barack Obama > > > Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said > > > that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer. > > > Do you believe homosexuality's a curse? > > > A: No. > > > > > > Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or that > > > you can change your behavior? > > > > > > A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I > > > disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as > > > president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with, > > > and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I > > > think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching > > > out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant > > > progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able to get > > > beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. I've > > > tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell > > > them very clearly where I disagree. > > > > > > Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11, > > > 2007 > > > Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said > > > that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer. > > > Do you believe homosexuality's a curse? > > > A: No. > > > > > > Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or that > > > you can change your behavior? > > > > > > A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I > > > disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as > > > president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with, > > > and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I > > > think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching > > > out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant > > > progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able to get > > > beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. I've > > > tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell > > > them very clearly where I disagree. > > > > > > Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11, > > > 2007 > > > The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black > > > churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can point > > > out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of seeing two > > > men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I > > > haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is more > > > important to the black family than the fact that black men don't have > > > any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly > > > disagree with you. > > > Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007 > > > > > > The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black > > > churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can point > > > out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of seeing two > > > men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I > > > haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is more > > > important to the black family than the fact that black men don't have > > > any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly > > > disagree with you. > > > Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007 > > > > > > Q: You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual > > > religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same- > > > sex marriage. What place does the church have in government- > > > sanctioned civil marriages? > > > A: It is my strong belief that the government has to treat all > > > citizens equally. I don't think that the church should be making > > > these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the > > > state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to > > > make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex > > > couples. My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other > > > denominations may make a decision, and obviously, part of keeping a > > > separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches > > > have the right to exercise their freedom of religion. > > > > > > Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007 > > > > > > Obama may not support marriage for gays. He does support equal > > > rights under civil unions. McCain on the other hand supports > > > legislation that takes away the right constitutionally > > > > > > McCain announced his support last week for the California ballot > > > measure, known as Prop. 8. "I support the efforts of the people of > > > California to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a > > > man and a woman, just as we did in my home state of Arizona," he said. > > > Source: By Michael Finnegan and Cathleen Decker, Los Angeles Times > > > Jul 2, 2008 > > > > > > Obama has said a lot more. He's appeared in debates on LOGO. I > > > don't want to be unfair to McCain here. He hasn't overtly opposed > > > rights to gays. I will leave their words to speak for them. > > > > > > However, I never asked about the current presidential election. I > > > only asked about Conservatives. > > > > > > If anyone is interested in how the candidates stand on different > > > areas of civil rights you can visit www.onthe issues.org > > > > > > I don't want rights that other people cannot have. It feels > > > unbalanced. I think of Laurel Hester who fought to her dying breath > > > to have her hard earned pension awarded to her partner. > > > > > > There is sometimes no excuse for the inexcusable. > > > > > > BTW, I admire some aspects of the original almost altruistic > > > conservative movement. Those old small government guys weren't > > > trying to discriminate against any one group. The Republicans of > > > yore were the party of Lincoln. If I lived, 150 years ago I would be > > > a Republican. I couldn't vote, but I'd be a Republican. The > > > original party founders must be looking down with horror at the > > > current one. I don't doubt that quite a few living ones are too. > > > I've just read an interview with one - Christopher Buckley, the son > > > of William F. Buckley, Jr. I hope you're more Buckley than Bush. > > > > > > Best, > > > Jennifer > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/