mister pig;232741 Wrote: > Yes headphones are a valuable tool in the recording studio. But they are > not the only device used. recordings are mixed down through studio > monitors also. Many sound engineers have a variety of systems they use > to evaluate the final mix. headphones have their own set of strengths, > but are also limited in their ability to present the spatial complexity > of music. Personally I am not a fan of them, I dont like the in your > head feel to the music. > > I have to disagree with the point of soundstaging being in the mind of > the listener. More than one person can listen to a piece of music on a > system and accurately describe the position of instruments and > vocalists. It is repeatable. So therefore the phonomenon exists within > a recording. How it is achieved is a different issue. Sure some of it > is artifical, and at other times it is due to skilled recording > techniques. Never the less it is part of the recording, and can't be > reproduced by headphones. It is possible to hear the amount of > reflection or ambient information in a recording, but the spatial scope > of the recording is lost. > > As you may guess, I am not a fan of headphones. In theory they should > eliminate alot of issues. Room reflections are taken out of the > equation. bass response has a unique texture to it that loudpseakers > cannot replicate. Each ear is fed the precise signal, so it should be > better. Yet the scale of amusic presentation is lost. Or the illusion > of a musical peformance. So that is why I am not a fan of them. > > This is a long post. But I am reminded of another matter. A couple of > years ago I bought a pair of Acoustat 1+1 speakers. Wonderful > condition, and well regarded electrostats. I didnt't keep them because > the longer I listened to them, everything sounded the same. Recodings > that should have sounded different did not. All music had the same feel > or signature to it. I dont know if it was due to the thicker nature of > the mylar sheet that Acoustat used. Or if it was due to the > transformers that comprised the crossover network(actually more of a > filter system). But I do know what I heard. Recordings that should not > have sounded the same did. > > Now it can be construed that I am using the "something is wrong with > your gear since you cant hear what I hear" arguement. Thats a valid > point. All I ask, if possible is this. If you listen to the same tracks > on a decently set up pair of speakers, are your experiences replicated. > I am not sure that headphones are capable of displaying the differences > between the two formats. Or at least it makes it harder to hear. This is > a long post, but thanks for taking the time to see it to the end. Al I > am trying to do is hold an intelligent discussion of what people > experience. Not just what is theoretically possible. Some of the posts > in this thread have gotten boarderline nasty, although I understand the > posters point of reference. I may not have he technical background to > understand how the software behind the SB works, but in the end I know > what I hear. Personally I would prefer it if the lossless system worked > as well. It would save me disc space, and make transfering music to > IPODS even more convenient. But in the end, all I want is the best > sound possible. > > Regards > Mister Pig [long post]
Mister Pig (great name BTW!): 1) I'm well aware of what goes on in studios :o) - my point was that headphones are generally used as an analytical tool for dissecting mixes and spotting problems etc. Of course full range (and nearfield) monitors are used for the final mixdown balancing etc. 2) "Stereo" is a complete illusion, recreated by the brain which as RB said is doing some powerfull DSP to do this. The less work the brain has to do to achieve what it feels to be a realistic synthesis, the better the listener feels about the sound. This is the underlying cause of "listener fatigue" IMHO. Remember that single microphones have no concept of left or right (or up and down for that matter!) only louder/quieter, nearer/further. Stereo works because we have two ears and a brain - and by supplying the ears with a suitable signal we can recreate the impression of the original soundfield. Anything that has been close-mic'd or multitracked has to be manipulated to produce a suitable soundfield. In the simplest case this is achieved by positioning an instrument within the soundfield by panning it left/right. At the end of the day, the engineer will position an instrument more left or right by altering its volume - that's all. OK so he/she might delay it and eq it as well. The fact that two or more people can listen to the same track and place the instruments in the same soundfield location is testament to the fact that our ears and brains work in the same ways. For exactly the same reason, we humans can generally agree on the concepts of "red", "sweet", "rough" etc. I respectfully ask you read this link as it explains the "stereo illusion" much more clearly than I can http://www.ambiophonics.org/App_B_ambiophonics_2nd_edit.htm 3) In the interest of science and to address your concern about headphones, I repeated the test again using speakers (had to wait for an empty house!). I fully understand that you are not necessarily going to buy this but guess what? I could not tell the difference between streamed flac or wav. Test methodology was as before. Replay system was: SB3-Altmann JISCO+UPCI-TACT 2.2x(digital coax i/o, upsampling to 96Khz for output) MF DACX-v3+PSU, MF X-10 Tube Buffer, Linn 5103, 3xLinn LK140 amps with Aktive crossovers fitted, Linn Espeks (ceramic bases, spiked into the floor) Townshend Supertweeters, Linn Seizmik sub, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, Russ Andrews mains leads, Chord Reference i/c's (digital coax is all Kimber silver). Sorry about all the "K"'s :o) Hope you find this interesting Regards Phil [/long post] -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38258 _______________________________________________ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
