Subject: RE: women
From: "Dowse, Timothy" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked] '" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:06:49 -0000

In Canada, student ultimate works as women and open.  No co-ed.  The women
keep coming to practice because they train and play with other women, and
then go to tournaments and play against other women.  Then they have
nationals, and it is again open and women.  I think if we want the number of
women playing ultimate to grow (I guess everybody does, for the good of the
sport) then perhaps clubs should try having seperate women's training. Also,
make more of the women's tournaments that we do have.  I don't think co-ed
is the answer.  Don't get me wrong, I think co-ed is great to play, but I
don't think it is the answer to getting more women in the sport.  I think
the grievance women seem to have is that they are put off practicing because
the blokes tend to dominate/not throw them the disc/push them around/smell
bad whatever.  If women had separate training sessions, then they could
avoid these issues, Co-ed can still generate problems with guys.    
I mean, I think there would be less women soccer players at uni if they had
to train with the guys, and then play in teams with them (I know soccer is
more contact, but the principle is similar).  
Then, when the women have become comfortable playing, they can start playing
co-ed, and be respected by the guys before they have even put a foot on the
field.  But I don't think co-ed is the answer at the start.  
Anyway, rant over.  I hope I am not upsetting anyone.
Tim Dowse
P.S. I know some problems might be that there are not enough experienced
women players to run training in any particular club...well, guys, get out
there and coach them.  And encourage them to come back!  

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Booth
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: 10/31/2001 3:36 PM
Subject: re: women - mixed

Jasper,

That's the point though isn't it.  Why aren't there more women in
ultimate
in the UK/in student ultimate?  Because it is very difficult for women
to
come into the sport and find a niche, for one reason or another.  I
haven't managed to pin down why.  It is difficult to move into such a
male
dominated environment - I've friends who've given up because they find
that they just don't get the disc.  Women play differently - they can
make
it to an equally good level - they just don't do the dominating the in
air
tall boy stuff.  It is as much an issue for the rest of the men on the
teams - what incentive have we got to learn how to play with women/ read
their cuts when we generally have 5 other guys doing the air dominating
stuff which we can throw to?

If teams where made to be mixed - you might start getting that synergy -
just as many teams would be fielded -because each team would then need
to
be mixed - suddenly women in ultimate have qudos - you'd have teams all
over the uk who would take the recruitment and developement of women
seriously.  Sure, many teams would still be the all male handlers doing
the bulk, but the successful teams would be the teams that learnt to
play
with all their players.  [I'm not knocking the teams out there who are
already doing this - but it would then happen on a much larger scale]

Maybe all women tournaments are the answer - but you still don't get
past
that issue of how do you get men and women to learn to play together -
it's got to be mixed I recon.

Ben

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 [email-masked] wrote:

>
> Becca,
>
> I think it could be an interesting idea but unfortunately making
students
> co-ed is not possible. Most uni clubs just simply do not have enough
women.
> Last year we had about 7 women in the club. Some more dedicated than
others
> and even that wouldn't ensure they could make it to the tourneys. That
was
> a good year for us. The other years I have played we have not had that
many
> women and that would be even worse.
>
> My point is if you make student nationals 2-5 split then a lot of
teams
> would be unable to enter. Sorry but there aren't enough women in
student
> ultimate for it. I would encourage women to play and have tried. We
did
> have a woman on our student team last year and she played as much as
any of
> us and still came 2nd so keep them coming...
>
> Jesper
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Rebecca Humphries" <[email-masked]>@warwick.ac.uk on
> 31/10/2001 14:04:29
>
> Sent by:  [email-masked]
>
>
> To:   [email-masked], [email-masked]
> cc:
>
> Subject:  re: women
>
>
>
>
> Want some more opinion - I doubt it!!
>
> Just a thought, but can't student regionals/nationals etc be a 2-5
split.
> You don't need to organise a whole new student competition, just
change the
> gender criteria (it's not strictly co-ed so you don't even have to
call it
> that).
>
> It's bloody tough being a woman in student frisbee. When I left uni no
one
> wanted us to play in their teams, so a group of chicks organised their
own
> team - Funky Nuns/Women in Black - and spent a year and a half losing
every
> game we played!!
>
> Attitudes towards women players has to change at the roots - women
will
> practise, practise, practise if they think it's worth their while.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Nicole Roberts
> >To: [email-masked]
> >Subject: re: women
> >Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:34:01 +0000 (GMT)
> >
> >Personally, if that's the way that leeds play then I
> >feel very sorry for Anna.
> >
> >If you look at the top four teams in student nationals
> >last year, 3 of them had a woman playing for them. I
> >appreciate that one out of fifteen isn't much, but
> >it's a start.
> >
> >A student co-ed tournament is, in my opinion, an
> >excellent idea, however it's ran (a 5-2 ratio may be
> >necessary).
> >
> >By effectively forcing women on the pitch by playing
> >co-ed can only improve the playing standard of student
> >women's ultimate, as if any team actually wants to do
> >reasonably well then they'll have to use all seven
> >players, not just players without breasts...
> >
> >Anyroad, this is probably a bit of a pointless mail
> >unless we have some university that's willing to host
> >co-ed nationals, and a weekend that doesn't clash with
> >either easter holidays, paganello, open nationals or
> >those horrid things we call finals...
> >
> >Okay, had my tuppence, back to work
> >
> >nicole
> >mohawks
> >
> >____________________________________________________________
> >Nokia Game is on again.
> >Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new
> >all media adventure before November 3rd.
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>
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