Tom Vogt wrote: > > Sunder wrote: > > > but all this is hypothetical, since I'm not talking about industrial > > > power of 1900 or 1940, but of corporate power in 2000, and especially of > > > the years yet to come. > > > > Ok, so give us some documentation. How many people did Bill Gates & Co kill > > and what are the details of their deaths? > > oh, come on. that's a weak excuse of an argument. how many people did > stalin and hitler kill? probably none, at least not personally. most > people of power are bright enough to not get their own hands dirty, > and/or not do it in a way that you could prove. > > now if you rephrase the question to "how many deaths have resulted from > the activities of ..." it becomes a lot more interesting. for starters, > people die because companies save money in safety precautions. extreme > cases are forced labor in nazi germany during the war, and a lot of > companies were glad to get these cheap workers, and most didn't exactly > try hard to give them acceptable working conditions. I'm sure other > countries have cases in their own history that aren't much better. That's a lame arguement. Hitler provided slaves. They accepted. Yes. It was made possible by government. Ok, now show me some real examples please. As I've said "Bill Gates & Co" How many deaths were caused by Microsoft please. > also, don't forget that an important part of my argument is that > corporations are currently held in line by a bigger bully (government) > pushing some rules. "industry-self-regulation" is a myth. anyone on this > list should know better, just by looking at the example of how well > privacy "self-regulation" works. it's no surprise that europe - which > has extensive laws on privacy - has a privacy foundation so much > stronger that it is seriously debated whether or not to outlaw automated > data exchange with the US (unless the owner of the data ok'ed it) ? Yes, it works just fine, as long as government isn't involved. Last time I checked, Government wasn't pro privacy. They may say they are, but shit like Echelon, black bag jobs, and other forms of snooping state otherwise. Last time I checked, companies such as RSA Labs weren't putting in back doors. But those involved with governments - say Crypto AG did. Hint: bring up pesticides (and I'll bring up wars and we'll see which is orders of magnitude bigger. Hiroshima and Nagasaki for example weren't nuked because Ford Motors decided the Japs weren't buying our cars.) Hint #2: When corporations kill off their customers, they lose money. Care to provide better documentation to back up your words? -- ---------------------------- Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos -------------------- + ^ + Sunder "Only someone completely distrustful of /|\ \|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] all government would be opposed to what /\|/\ <--*--> -------------------- we are doing with surveillance cameras" \/|\/ /|\ You're on the air. -- NYC Police Commish H. Safir. \|/ + v + Say 'Hi' to Echelon "Privacy is an 'antisocial act'" - The FedZ. ---------------------------- http://www.sunder.net ----------------------- I love the smell of Malathion in the morning, it smells like brain cancer.
