On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 04:31:03PM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote: > David Weinehall wrote: > > > >You *really* need to have a look at the pictures. All of your > >argumentation below about pron neatly goes *wooosh*. > > > I'll take your word. However, we seem to be lacking some process here. I > don't have a guideline at hand regarding what can and can not be > distributed to minors, with impunity, in various places. Lacking that, > we should probably have a procedure in place to run any questionable > images and dialogue by our volunteer counsel simply to get a call > regarding how much trouble they could make for the project and its > members. The goal is to be able to say that we distributed the image on > advice of counsel, which can help us if the image gets us in court later on. > You're looking at this from a US-centric viewpoint, Bruce, and extending this to the whole Project. We have these flamewars erupt every now and again - remember deity/apt or the purity package? - but they never achieve anything. Somewhere else in the thread I made the point that people have to respect each other and that everyone using Debian is subject to local laws.
Advice of US counsel means very little. There are 50 states in the Union plus Puerto Rico and US dependencies - that's US law and even then, I doubt you'd get consensus from a lawyer in each state. Then there's Federal law. I trained as an English lawyer twenty odd years ago: but, relatively locally, I'd have to deal with three sets of Channel Islands, Northern Ireland, Scotland, the Isle of Man and Gibraltar - all different jurisdictions subject, broadly, to similar legal provisions. Then there's EU law :( Obscenity in England is, effectively, "that which is likely to deprave and corrupt" - there is no absolute standard and each case is taken on its merits. I wouldn't like to second-guess which side of the line each Debian package may fall - but would be more than happy to suggest caution and common sense where appropriate. No one is _forced_ to install any Debian package outside the barest minimum: any package installation is normally a conscious act of choice: if warned, they can make a more appropriate decision for them and their circumstances. There is no appropriate international guideline on what can be distributed to minors. In Germany and Brazil, you've to watch out for all games. In England, most minors are probably OK with most games. In Germany/Austria/France I'd have to watch out for Nazi imagery. Images of bare-breasted women dancers might be OK in Swaziland - but out for much of the rest of the world ... Tag package descriptions: hot-babe : Contains cartoon imagery which may offend some users. Discretion advised. Work out a mirror exclusion mechanism. Ask local users most likely to be affected. This does not cast moral judgments on the suitability or otherwise of each individual package for Debian as a whole but may influence what individuals are safe putting on their machines. I have to think about this every time I update a machine at work - do I put on fortunes-off - probably not. If I install the GIMP for an appropriate purpose and it inadvertently contains a questionable image as an example buried somewhere obscure, I'm not as worried: my co-workers are adults, I can demonstrate a business case for installing/using GIMP and the primary purpose of GIMP is not to display questionable images. This would change, potentially, if I were subject to intensive Internet monitoring / heavy religious policing, for example. In such a case, we might be better off making no warranties and only distributing Debian installer disks to certain countries, for example. Interestingly enough, many people might agree on what could be regarded as appropriate - is there scope for a Debian-conservative / Debian-filtered custom Debian distribution for those that wish it/require it? > How counsel reports back may be complicated due to issues of > attorney-client privilege. We probably want to be able to maintain > privilege so that we don't have to report to a court what we discussed > with our attorney. It's not yet clear to me that stuff we post to > debian-private is still under privilege. I'd have to ask our lawyer. > > Thanks > > Bruce > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED]