The thread was about "knowing" the impact of the digital world on health/healthcare. We just went down a little side road about knowing. It's a healthy thing to do from time to time. ;-) Steve snow
On 8/9/08 11:11 AM, "Jorge Gallardo Rius" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey guys, > What does all this have to do with Health and the Digital Divide? > > --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Stephen Snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health > To: "The Digital Divide Network discussion group" > <digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net> > Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 3:10 PM > > Taran, > > Data is not a bad thing; it also is not every thing. Empiricism does not make > for truth anymore than feeling makes for empiricism. [Was Decartes correct of > did he just have it backward? Maybe instead of I think therefore I am, it is I > am, therefore I think...and because I think I *know* that I am!] > > It takes a combination. Just as you say you need data, you cite a quixotic > novelist as your own "data". That's not a criticism, it is merely > a reflection fo the way we all are -- needing both "facts" and > "knowing," the latter of which often is other than or beyond facts or > empirical data. > > Now, of course, data matter. And there is a dearth of solid data in many areas > of the electronic world. And from a data perspective, then, we can't really > "know" what works or to what depth. (It raises a huge question about > the actual validity of ANY online mechanisms, doesbn't it? About all we > truly know is that a lot of people [20% of 6 billion is still quite a bunch in > my limited thinking] use the heck out of this stuff and they use it in their > own > ways and for their own purposes, which often aren't OUR purposes or even > purposes we believe are "useful" or "valuable" or, even, > "right." > > What was it Sam Clemmens once wrote? There are three kinds of lies: "lies, > damned lies and statistics." So it isn't just data but also the quality > of the data -- how it was gathered, how it was conceived (!), how it was > interpreted -- that matters, as well. > > As long as I have been actively involved in the online world, and I'd put > that right at about 20 years, I have believed (felt, sensed -- not known) that > no one really knows what is going on with all of the online "things." > As soon as someone says he/she does know, I am immediately skeptical. > Companies > often do this: they love to prognosticate value or usage or some certain > future > because it might benefit them in some way. The truth -- or better yet, my > belief > -- is that we all are still touching separate parts of the elephant and > describing it as the whole. > > --Steve Snow > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Aug 8, 2008 8:37 AM >> To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group > <digitaldivide@digitaldivide.net> >> Subject: Re: [DDN] The Digital Divide and Human Health >> >> I am not disagreeing with you, but I do have some questions and comments. >> >> Stephen Snow wrote: >>> Don't think that I confuse the two; I don't. For many people, > electronic >>> connections are very important aspects of their lives in positive ways > and, >>> because of that, they are healing. >> I'd like to think that you are right, but more accurately I *feel* that > >> you are right. Whether this feeling is correct or not would require >> empirical data to substantiate it, and that never seems to come to the >> fore. Realistically speaking, 20% of the humans held to this planet by >> gravity are online. Factor in mobile phones and that percentage can go >> up very high - but here's the issue: How do we *know* that? In the >> circles we operate in - we who participate in discussion lists, social >> networks, et al - how do we know that people we do not know see benefit >> in these? And how do we substantiate the value of electronic connections? >> >> Kurt Vonnegut wrote this: >> >> "...Electronic communities build nothing. You wind up with nothing. We > >> are dancing animals. How beautiful it is to get up and go out and do >> something. We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell >> you any different..." >> >> (Man Without a Country, Chapter 6, last paragraph) >> >> I'm somewhere between Vonnegut and what 'many' people in > electronic >> communities claim. One of the issues I find interesting is the >> telecenter, which is lauded as being one of the great things that works >> toward the digital divide decreasing - and yet, the success of >> telecenters is not necessarily in the electronic communities but the >> communities - the human communities - that get together in the >> telecenters and help each other out. Rarely do you hear of telecenters >> being an integral aspect of social networking sites, etc - and that is >> because their real asset is bring people together in a physical manner >> while using technology. >> >> In essence, telecenters are an interesting success and their failure >> comes when internet access at residences has a cost decrease which >> permits people to stay at home. Yet is there a benefit to staying home >> and working on one's computer, away from other human beings? Is it... >> better? Or does it isolate us? Where is the balance? How much is good, >> how much is bad? How do we know? >> >> We don't really. 'Many' people believe that we 'know', > but we really >> don't. Everyone is different. The people around us tend to support what > >> we believe because... those are the people we surround ourselves with. >> >> So, I understand what you mean and I agree with it. But I cannot >> substantiate my agreement, and that is troubling. Maybe we're wrong. I >> know we're all really smart and everything, but we could be wrong. When > >> a statement ends in 'because I said so', the 'I' has lost. >>> I think it is oversimplifying to call it >>> merely a crutch. The truth is *anything* can be considered a crutch > and >>> anything improperly used can create further complications. >> Anything is a crutch. I agree. But we were discussing technology and >> human health, not being human. :-) >>> A doctor friend >>> of mine told me just last evening of a human error she made that cost > a >>> person her life; has she put that woman on an ultrasound machine, she > very >>> well might not be dying of cancer right now. I don't think of the > world in >>> such starkly dualistic terms, generally, Taran -- heaven/hell, > right/wrong. >>> Certainly there are moral absolutes (we all have our favorites) and > the >>> blind affection for technology is no exception, but I tend to think we > live >>> in the world of 'gray,' mostly, technology included. >>> >> We agree. But even in agreeing, I question why we agree and I question >> my own thoughts on this as I would like to believe that recent advances >> in communication technology can have a positive impact on humanity as a >> whole - but I have no data to support it and even have data to say that >> it isn't so. My question is - and this will be unpopular for many, but > I >> think it is important - how can we justify ourselves other than saying >> we 'feel' we are doing the right thing? Where is the data that > supports >> our position? >> >> The faith in the idea that technology can help in any context, including >> human health, is good and I think it is important as being a core. But I >> also believe that we need to really do a bit of technocultural >> introspection and see what it is we are actually trying to achieve and >> how we are trying to achieve it. My best offer for a metric is one I >> bring up from time to time - counting smiles - but that is impractical. >> >> Again, I might sound pessimistic but I am not trying to be. I want to >> know - *know* - how we are impacting, who we are impacting, and whether >> the positives and negatives for individuals balance or not. I do not >> know, and 'many' people say that they do know but they then refer > to >> 'many' other people... we have to have harder data than that > somewhere. >> We should. Medicine is still run on statistics, though the human genome >> project should have thrown at least part of that out the window by now. >> The human genome project certainly can and has helped with health, and >> in that way has allowed technology to help medicine... but has it >> reached it's potential? I would like to think we can do better. >> >> I just cannot tell you with any accuracy or margin of error whether we >> are actually doing anything of value. We need more data. At least I do. >> >> -- >> Taran Rampersad >> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> http://www.knowprose.com >> http://www.your2ndplace.com >> >> Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ >> >> "Criticize by creating." Michelangelo >> "The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is > mine." - Nikola Tesla >> >> _______________________________________________ >> DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list >> DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net >> http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide >> To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. > > > Stephen Snow, PhD, LPC > Executive Director > Collaborative Family Health Association > www.cfha.net > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 828-689-3615 > 828-689-5066 (c) > "Nearly 70% of all health care visits have primarily a psychosocial > basis." (Fries, et. Al 1993, Shapiro et al., 1985) > _______________________________________________ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net > http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. > > > > _______________________________________________ > DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list > DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net > http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide > To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message. _______________________________________________ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@digitaldivide.net http://digitaldivide.net/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
