At 1/26/02 1:32 PM, POWERHOUSE wrote:

>I'm sure if it was really a
>Stolen card, which it would have to be
>since I have the CVC number too,

Somewhat off topic, but: I hope you don't literally mean you still have 
access to it when the chargeback arrives.

Storing the CVV2 or CVC2 number after the transaction goes through would 
defeat the whole purpose, which is that it's a number that appears only 
on the card itself, and not in any merchant database -- so an evildoer 
stealing a merchant's customer database won't get it. (It's also a 
violation of VISA/MasterCard/Amex contracts for a merchant to store it 
for more than ten minutes.)


>I would not give up if
>it was truly fraudulent!

Sure, but how can you tell for sure? I recently had a whole rash of 
fraudulent domain name orders where the bad guy provided the complete 
account information of each customer, including the customer's name, 
address, phone number, etc. The only way I was able to put a stop to it 
was to traceroute the IP address of every single order before approving 
them (they all resolved back to an ISP in Israel, but the cardholders had 
US addresses). (We had to use traceroute because the Israeli ISP had 
non-working reverse DNS. Grrrr.)

We talked to a few of the cardholders involved and every last detail of 
their personal information on the order was correct except for the e-mail 
address (they were addresses from US-based free ISPs, like Yahoo) and the 
Israeli IP address. If the thief had been based in the US, I would have 
had no way to tell at all without calling every new customer on the phone 
(and getting answering machines 80% of the time -- I've tried this with 
some suspicious orders in the past, and few people ever bother calling 
you back within a week, even the legitimate people; it's far more hassle 
than it would be worth to do for every order).

My point is that even having all the information you mention, the charge 
could still be fraudulent if a thief has stolen all that information, 
unless you're checking it by telephone or postal mail. If the customer 
continues to insist it was a fraudulent charge, no bank will reverse that 
chargeback. Period. Because otherwise, legitimate customers could be 
stuck with charges for fraudulent use of their card by a thief, which 
banks go far out of their way to avoid.

There's a persistent myth that some merchant service providers, more than 
others, "go to bat" for you and help you reverse chargebacks. It's simply 
not true. Whether a chargeback is reversed based on evidence you supply 
is totally up to the bank that issued the credit card to the consumer, 
not up to your merchant service provider. You can get a chargeback 
reversed if you provide evidence and the customer drops the challenge to 
the charge (as you described), but if the customer continues to insist 
it's fraudulent, it's going to continue as a chargeback no matter what 
company you use. (And your only choice then is to file a lawsuit, turn it 
over to a collections agency, etc.)

--
Robert L Mathews, Tiger Technologies

"The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody
appreciates how difficult it was."

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