Hi Dan, something that was not really mentioned so far is that there are still two major problems associated with the deployment of the Semantic Web.
First of all, there is the issue of trust. Not all information can be equally trusted, so your traditional Semantic Web "shopping scenario" would fall apart unless there is a way to make sure your results are clean from rogue retailers, non-existent offers and all kinds of related spam. Looking at current websites like Wikipedia, there is still a lot to be desired in terms of trust and verifiability of information, despite their best efforts to sort these problems out. I see this as a big challenge to which interaction design can definitely contribute. Second, there is no way of making a great ontology of everything, that everyone will agree with (ontology is a data model that represents a set of concepts within a domain and the relationships between those concepts). This is even for small domains like shopping: when I moved to another country a couple of years ago I was initially quite puzzled with the way some things were categorised in UK online shopping websites, which was not quite the same taxonomy that I had formed in my brain while growing up in another part of the world. Again, it's a big challenge how to reconcile these different views of the world if you'd like to produce some unified set of results. An interesting (although maybe a bit outdated) article that mentions the above problems in more detail can be found at: http://www.techreview.com/Infotech/12640/ Some more sceptic opinions at: http://www.shirky.com/writings/semantic_syllogism.html http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2006/06/the_7_flaws_of_the_semantic_we.html Regards, Alex On Jan 16, 2008 11:19 AM, Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for your responses, I find this a really interesting topic and your > thoughts have been equally interesting. Here are a couple more thoughts of > mine below: > > Bryan... > >on the other hand, that still leaves a big area open - the type of content > that orients > >someone around a particular subject or brand or company. In a purely > >semantic world where there are no web sites, just aggregators and search > >engines (assuming more intelligent ones than we have now), how will I > >discover information about a new subject about which I know nothing? > > Good point, there will always be more information needed regarding a > transaction online than the product details alone. For instance delivery > details, company details, refund policy etc which may need to be contained > within a conventional site. However if the vision of the semantic web is > fulfilled it should make it easy to discover information on a new subject > which I know nothing, by having the ability to pull in all related > information for your needs, rather than you having to move from page to page > to find that information. > > Gloria... > >I think the rise of the semantic web will coincide with the shift to > hand-held devices as the primary data source > > I agree, I think the mobile has the potential to play a big part in the > semantic web. It really goes back to Bryan's point that the Semantic web > would be great for the type of 'I need to know now' information, and the > mobile means this can happen anywhere, anytime. > > > >I would argue that data already is the most important thing online, not > websites. Web "sites" are the containers for our data. > > I agree to a point, obviously the most important thing online is to find > answers to our questions, Products for our needs etc. However, is it not > Information contained within sites that is the most important thing > currently, rather than raw data which can be sliced and diced as we require. > Going back to my example earlier for instance, if I currently want to find > out who is the most reputable retailer of TV's I can search the web for > 'information' and reviews. Maybe in the future I just query the web, get the > 'data' and turn it into information tailored for my needs. (sorry that is a > little vague, this is probably an indication in it's self that I am wrong > ;-) ) > > In general, my question regarding the death of the web page was trying to > stimulate discussion, and I am sure there will always be a need for it, > after all not everything we do online revolves around retail. We socialise, > play, write and contribute in discussion etc. But I do wonder if the > Semantic web becomes a reality, will companies invest less in transactional > websites and focus more upon standardising data so that it can be passed to > a semantic agent (application) which will do the work for them. > > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 8:57 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > I got a message privately that made a point I might be confusing the > > semantic web with something else. (Probably something closer to what > > most designers know as "semantic markup.") It's a good point, so I > > figure I'd write my response to the list in case I am. > > > > ---------- > > > > > I think you must be thinking of something else, the issues you > > > raise have little/nothing to do with the foundation of the semantic > > > web: OWL representations of the concepts your site's content is > > > presenting to humans. > > > > > > I'm probably conflating issues and making certain leaps too early in > > what I wrote, but for the semantic web to occur in my understanding > > of the term, the data representation has to work to do more than > > simply present the data. It has to define he meaning of the data so > > more can be done with it. > > > > From: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm? > > id=00048144-10D2-1C70-84A9809EC588EF21&page=2 > > > > "The Semantic Web is not a separate Web but an extension of the > > current one, in which information is given well-defined meaning, > > better enabling computers and people to work in cooperation. The > > first steps in weaving the Semantic Web into the structure of the > > existing Web are already under way. In the near future, these > > developments will usher in significant new functionality as machines > > become much better able to process and "understand" the data that > > they merely display at present." > > > > To give "information well-defined meaning" you are effectively > > tagging it, and to do so separate from the visual presentation can be > > a problem if you also use the markup to define its meaning for the > > purpose of letting the computer figure out what to do with it. > > > > For example: > > > > <h1>This is my title</h1> > > > > and > > > > <p class="mainheader">This is my title</p> > > > > Are two very different things. One is using the tag to define the > > type of information and could be used by the computer to do all sorts > > of behaviors with it, but requires all data of the type to be > > visually the same. The other is using CSS to simply style it, and > > dropping the class removes the style from the object itself. In order > > for the semantic web to work, web markup should follow the first > > method, not the second. (In my understanding.) And yet, to do complex > > content presentation in a web browser, example #2 is actually easier > > to control and allows the designer to make the content work better > > for the specific design case in question. > > > > So what we end up with is something more like this to try and solve > > both issues at the same time: > > > > <div class="article"> > > <h1>This is my title</h1> > > <p>This is my story ... </p> > > </div> > > > > And then use > > > > div.article h1 { > > style: properties go here; > > } > > > > In CSS to declare H1 styles and presentation strictly confined to > > content with article classes, while also giving the computer a means > > to use H1 for something useful outside of the presentation because it > > has special things it can do with content defined as H1. It's also > > nice because we can now use things like JQuery to create interaction > > using the class selectors in ways that I think model the intention of > > the "semantic web," and to use JQuery effectively, it requires > > cleaner markup that should be a "semantic" as possible to keep the > > Javascript workable. > > > > This kind of "semantic markup" approach to markup works to a degree, > > but it quickly gets messy once the content gets more complex and the > > presentation more complex. When that mess occurs, one usually has to > > toss out "semantic markup" to get the presentation and interaction > > correct. And in tossing out semantic markup, one also is impacting > > the semantic web. > > > > Again, in my understanding. I could easily be conflating these two > > issues when that's not necessary. > > > > I'll admit I know little about the backend data model representation > > that is being proposed for the semantic web or if there's going to be > > some new means of translating that meaning into usable markup for > > browser presentation (outside of all the XML tools that exist today), > > but if it's anything like what is happening currently, it's a > > hodgepodge and mashed up set of data mixing things semantically with > > things that are not. And when that happens, getting the job done > > wins, not getting the job done in a way that some future set of new > > features might do some useful things. > > > > So yes, I'm probably conflating and getting very far ahead of the > > issue and making all sorts of leaps that I passed over in my initial > > email, along with leaps that aren't correct, if I'm not confusing the > > issue in the first place. 8^) If I am, my apologies. > > > > -- > > Andrei Herasimchuk > > > > Principal, Involution Studios > > innovating the digital world > > > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c. +1 408 306 6422 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > To post to this list ....... 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