*Hi Peter,*
*Thanks for your advice! It is interesting to go deeper.*
On 5 January 2018 at 01:28, Pete Perkins <peperkin...@cs.com> wrote:
> Scott,
>
>
>
> Ted is correct. You must work to separate the concepts in
> your thinking. Functional insulation is that insulation required for the
> device to function and has identified insulation properties. Insulation
> used for safety purposes has a set of properties that ensure the safety
> function is robust; it, too, has insulation properties which will most
> likely be different than those of the functional insulation.
>
*It is no doubt I agree both points. As per safety perspective, the
transformer bobbin or motor slot insulator provide proper safety insulation
to the user. My original question was not talking about it but the
functional insulation, enamel coating property that may result in catching
fire, not electrical hazard. A weak coating may result in turn-to-turn
shorted and/or melted. The weak coating could be caused by the improper
manufacturing processes in enamel wire and/or coil inserting into core.
The shorted area will have very high spot temperature. In the motor, there
is a thermal fuse at 172 degC. I would like to know if the enamel wire of
F155 is able to withstand 172 degC. Otherwise, the motor may catch fire
before the fuse ruptures. I could not find these parameters in the spec
sheet. It may be due to my limited knowledge in this industry and looking
for advice from the experts in this forum.*
> Common usage mixes these two concepts together and the
> average engineer does not identify the difference in his application.
>
> So, for your project, where are the safety insulations
> provided? Are they the part of the unit where the insulated wire is
> depended upon for the ? If not, then the usual insulated wire can be used
> but, if it is the safety isolation protecting the user from the electricity
> supply then the usual functionally insulated wire is not adequate and the
> needed protection must be supplied in another way.
>
> TIW is a good solution to this latter problem. Perhaps this clarifies
> the concepts for you and you understand better why TIW is used in SMPS.
>
>
>
> :>) br, Pete
>
>
>
> Peter E Perkins, PE
>
> Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
>
> PO Box 23427
>
> Tigard, ORe 97281-3427
>
>
>
> 503/452-1201 <(503)%20452-1201>
>
>
>
> p.perk...@ieee.org
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2018 6:54 AM
>
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] F 155 enamel wire
>
>
>
> Hi Ted,
>
>
>
> TIW is quite commonly used in the transformer of SMPS. For motor
> windings, enamel wire is still a mainstream material in use.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On 4 January 2018 at 22:42, Ted Eckert <ted.eck...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Scott,
>
>
>
> The enamel provides functional insulation for the wire allowing the coil
> to work as intended. However, the enamel is not to be relied upon for the
> purposes of safety. Triple insulated wire (TIW) was developed partly to
> address this issue and it is used where there must be basic insulation
> between windings that are overlaid on top of each other.
>
>
>
> Ted Eckert
>
> Microsoft
>
>
>
> The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of
> my employer.
>
>
>
> *From:* Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:26 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] F 155 enamel wire
>
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
>
>
> Will look for the stds for understanding the meaning. It is interesting
> that an enamel coating is not necessarily considered insulation. If enamel
> coating is not necessarily considered insulation, the coil inductance, Q
> factor, energy dissipation, etc. will be affected. How does the coil work
> as intended?
>
>
>
> On 4 January 2018 at 02:56, Brian O'Connell <oconne...@tamuracorp.com>
> wrote:
>
> 0. NEMA MW1000
> 1. UL1446
> 2. winding limits in the standard scoped per the end-use equipment.
> 3. winding limits per the recognized EIS being used.
> 4. an enamel coating is not necessarily considered insulation - reference
> the scoped standards.
>
> Brian
>
> bpymail 2.5.9 test 2
> ============================================================
> ===============
>
>
> What are the maximum temperature and permissible operating temperature for
> this insulated wire?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Scott
>
> -
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