2014-07-17 17:04 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
>
> On 16 Jul 2014, at 19:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
>
>
> 2014-07-16 19:22 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
>
>>
>> On 15 Jul 2014, at 22:14, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-15 22:10 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
>>
>>>
>>> On 14 Jul 2014, at 17:25, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-07-14 17:13 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14 Jul 2014, at 12:53, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-07-14 12:09 GMT+02:00 Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Why do you need to see God to believe in God?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why should you believe if you can know ? If you can't, why should you
>>>> believe instead of not believing or go eating an hamburger ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seeing might make you know *that* you see, but it does not entail that
>>>> you know *what* you see, as you might be dreaming or hallucinating.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That wasn't what I was implying... I see not point to "believe" or not
>>> "believe"... Why *shoud* I believe anyway ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to clear things up, I use the common part of all "analytical
>>> definition of belief theory and knowledge theory", and in particular
>>> (knowing p) -> (believing p).
>>>
>>> If you know that there is milk in the fridge, you believe that there is
>>> milk in the fridge.
>>>
>>> The key difference is that the reciprocal is false. If you believe there
>>> is milk in the fridge , you can still "not know it".
>>>
>>
>> Well I can accept such language in mathematics where you make clear what
>> is meant, not in every day use.... when someone says he *believes* in god,
>>
>>
>> I use "believe" in the same mundane sense that "I believe that there is
>> orange juice in the fridge,
>>
>
> I believe in *god* is not like I believe there is orange juice in the
> fridge.
>
>
> What is the difference?
>
>
It imply faith, dogma. It imply an ontology about the world, the reality.
>
>
>
>
>
>> and later like in I believe in the axiom of elementary arithmetic and in
>> its first order logical consequence, or in "I don't believe the machine k
>> will stop on the input j.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> that's not what he meant... That's what I don't like in your approach to
>> insist using everyday word in everyday language *but* with your own
>> mathematical meaning. It's misleading you should see it.
>>
>>
>> I use "belief" in the doxastic sense of the analytical philosophers. Iuse
>> "belief" in the sense of Theaetetus, Gerson, etc.
>>
>
> You use those words in a misleading way... You do what you want of
> course... but you're clearly totally misunderstood when you talk to a
> believer.
>
>
> I am probably misunderstood by the "blind-faith" type of believers,
>
That means 99% of the persons who say openly they "believe in god".
> like the strong atheists
>
I've never met such kind of "atheist".
> I met from time to time (like John Clark to give the nearest example).
>
He surely doesn't believe in abrahamic god... And I quite agree that using
that word for first cause type of explanation is bound to be misunderstood.
"God" has too much history to be used in the sense you use it.
Quentin
> But as John Clark illustrates very well, they need a high dose of
> irrationalism, and as my works has illustrated, changing the vocabulary
> does not help.
>
> In interdisciplinary work, my strategy consists in using the terms on
> which each each discipline has the greatest consensus over. I am aware that
> this cannot satisfy everybody, but then in science we don't waste time in
> vocabulary discussion. If something is unclear about the use of some term,
> we just ask to remind the current used definition.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> Quentin
>
>
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quentin
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In general you believe something, not because you see it, but because
>>>> it fits well with your background knowledge. I can't see the set {0, 1, 2,
>>>> ...}, nor really define it, yet I hardly doubt that it makes sense, as it
>>>> explains a lot of other things in which I already tend to believe (like the
>>>> non existence of a bigger prime, or the existence of universal numbers, the
>>>> real numbers, etc.).
>>>>
>>>> Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quentin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14-Jul-2014, at 2:14 am, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2014 3:47 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure: "Do you believe in a theist god?"
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to.
>>>>>
>>>>> *So we can keep using the word "theology" and keep some academic
>>>>> departments that have no subject.*
>>>>>
>>>>> This would also include political science, arts, gender studies,
>>>>> french literature. Are you willing to go that far, and make what doesn't
>>>>> build bridges or bake bread, something to be learned as a podcast? Sauce
>>>>> for the goose, sauce for the gander. Dump them all. Right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can point to art, people with genders, and french literature. I've
>>>>> run a political campaign. But I've never seen a god.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brent
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
>>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Everything List" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
>> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
Batty/Rutger Hauer)
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
